Re: Where are the procedures for circumambulation?

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Larxene wrote:Curtis Manwaring's website cites Dorotheus and Ptolemy as the main sources for this technique. Can someone tell me the Book and Chapter in both sources where this technique was found?
I don't recall Ptolemy using the word ????????? (which is the word sometimes translated as 'circumambulation') at all in this context. He prefers ?????? (sending out, directing), which is discussed in Tetrabiblos III.10 or III.11 depending on which edition you're using.

Ptolemy's method is the one that later became known as primary direction, which is more mathematically sophisticated (and truer to natural motion) than the common method of using only rising times (that is, an approximation of oblique ascension), which he rejects. Dorotheus probably used this latter method, although, as he mainly directs the ascendant (which even Ptolemy would direct by oblique ascension), it is hard to be absolutely sure. Dorotheus describes his methods in the beginning of book III.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

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Hi,

Ptolemy also describes (very briefly) how to interpret circumambulations / distributions / directing at the end of Book IV, in his predictive chapter.

One difference between Ptolemy and others who use this method is that he treats the planets whose bodies and aspects are hit by the directed point as the primary time lords, and the bound/term lords as secondary. Others (I believe Dorotheus, but especially the Persians) do it the other way around, with the bound lords being primary and the other aspects/bodies encountered, being secondary.

Best,
Ben Dykes
www.bendykes.com
Traditional Astrology Texts and Teaching

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Thanks, Martin and Ben.

I am aware of the differences between the two, I just do not know what it means to 'direct a point'. For example, if we are directing the Ascendant, and it is in 5 degrees Aries...then what? If we use the Persians' version, does that mean that Jupiter will be the first general time lord, then Venus, then Mercury, then Mars, etc?

Note that I am using the Egyptian terms in this example.
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Larxene wrote:I am aware of the differences between the two, I just do not know what it means to 'direct a point'. For example, if we are directing the Ascendant, and it is in 5 degrees Aries...then what? If we use the Persians' version, does that mean that Jupiter will be the first general time lord, then Venus, then Mercury, then Mars, etc?
Yes, that's right (but the planets and aspects falling in the terms are still very important).

It may help to view directions as a two-step process. The first step requires no real mathematics: you just take the significator you're interested in and move it symbolically around the zodiac (generally in the order of the signs, though converse directions are possible as well), keeping everything else fixed and noting the terms the significator passes through and the planets and aspects it encounters. (The ruler of the terms is called divisor, the planets and their aspects are called promissors. Ben translates divisor as 'distributor'.)

The second step is finding out when a particular period begins and ends (if we're talking about directions through the terms), or when a particular aspect is perfected. That requires spherical trigonometry and takes a bit of time to do by hand.
https://astrology.martingansten.com/

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@panka: ...And also no risk of items being lost in mail, like the Mathesis I bought before this. :(


@Martin and Ben:

Thanks. It does sound complicated to calculate the time period. I can only do up to 12th grade trigonometry and even then I need to refresh :lala

It would be great to have a visual demonstration of the technique instead of blocks of text. I'll see whether I can save enough money for the material. Right now I am tempted by Ben's series on the Platonic Forms.
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.