Single Planet Mystery

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Let's do this a little bit differently. This is the chart of an American male - famous, but probably not famous outside the US. I left the outer planets in, but since there is no monetary prize for guessing the name, cheating helps no one. But please don't try to guess who it is. The challenge is for the delineation, not naming the native.

The challenge is simple enough, maybe. Delineate Mars in this chart using Placidus cusps only for now. We can use anything else in the chart that might help - rulerships, aspects, antiscia, whatever, but try to limit the remarks to the significance of Mars without delineating the other planets or angles. Try it without the outers and then, if you must, use them but please, not for sign rulers.

After we get some responses, I'd like to do the same thing with this chart only with whole sign houses. I'll post the chart at that time.

Mars struck me as singularly important in this chart, but then I know who it is. I'd like to see others' opinion on this planet. Anyone who knows any astrology at any level will get something right about this, so don't worry about being wrong. Have some fun.

Mars

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Well this is a toughie. Mars in the 12th house but dignified and also He rules the sixth house. I am reminded of that old English political jibe " You sir shall die either on the gallows or of the pox. There is a close aspect from Jupiter though
MJ

I have made a guess as to his profession
Matthew Goulding

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thanks tom.

i think mars is very strong in this chart although treating it as placidus in the way i think people read placidus houses gives it a weakened status. the fact is the planetary phase of mars is strong, the sign it is in is one where it is capable of expressing it's true nature, the sextile to sun and trine to jupiter/pluto moon is also a plus. the square to neptune can suggest some drug issues or some type of weakness over the use of the martial energy. maybe that is political or religious involvement. but the big bugaboo for a hellenistic astrologer is the sect of the chart and mars here which is the malefic of the opposite sect and in the upper part of the chart which paints mars as more of a malefic then not.

i think the chart is probably some athlete who could also have drug dependency issues. perhaps if i was to think of mars in the 12th - while i really think it is a mix of both - 12th and 1st - i would see this as a person who suffers from the narrowness of their good fortune in some martial area. mars rules the 1st and 6th here. maybe they are some political person - either way i see this is a chart of someone who has reached a certain level of worldly success. perhaps the mars has acted in a way to drag it down some - sexual desires operating in some 12th house manner that end in removing the potential for continued standing and power.. i am reading this chart like it is a 'male' chart, but tom hasn't said. the more i look at this chart now, i think political person makes a lot of sense too.. i look forward to others feedback!

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@James. I noted in the first sentence that this is the chart of an American male. Without referring to anything you wrote, I will say this is the sort of reply I was hoping I would get. We'll look at the chart with whole sign houses next, so thanks for sticking with Placidus for now.
Here is a quote from my favorite old astrologer: Morinus

On the other hand, a malefic in good celestial state in an unfortunate house will not take away the evil - that is, it will not prevent it from taking place - but instead will rescue the native from that evil, or temper it through its own good celestial state. And also, the King of Sweden (Gustav Adolphus of Sweden 1594 - 1632) had Mars in the twelfth in Scorpio but was not sickly, and was never incarcerated or crushed by hidden enemies. One can see therefore how much more effectively benefics in good celestial state in unfortunate houses can be expected to remove the ills of the houses.
As an FYI Morin saw the 12th as the house of illness. Long story.

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Another FYI. Morin rarely used the terminology "essential dignity" and/or "accidental dignity." "Celestial State" is the condition in the cosmos. The best celestial state is defined as: being in domicile or exaltation, swift and direct in motion, soft aspects from benefics, no hard aspects from malefics, oriental of the Sun, and occidental of the Moon. There might be other stuff.

The position of a planet in a house was its "terrestrial state." A planet in a good house was in good terrestrial state, and in a bad house it was in bad terrestrial state.

In this chart, Mars is swift and direct in motion. The rest you can see in the chart.

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thanks tom. i must have picked that first sentence up, but didn't remember while i was writing.. i think the crinkle i would be curious to hear someone like mark discuss is the hellenistic perspective regarding mars as malefic of the opposite sect.. otherwise thanks for the reminder of morins views on this topic of how to interpret a malefic in good celestial state while technically in poor terrestrial state based on being in house 12 using placidus.. it will be interesting to find out how mars has behaved, or not, lol..

Mars

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With Mars alone dignified in 12th moderate fear of enemies. Moon dignified in 8th applies to mars so health ok.
Mercury may aid mars with eloquence but rarely a good combination . Along with moon in 8th he manages others affairs better than his own (this from an aphorism of Cardan so don't tell Morin)
Last edited by Mjacob on Tue Apr 29, 2014 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
Matthew Goulding

Mars

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It also occurs to me that if mars well dignified in the 12th means little to fear from enemies then two dignified planets aspecting him from the 8th then he does not fear death but perhaps others fear him
Mars along with Saturn aid the sun mercury conj in the 10th indicate reknown though we might hope to see mars below the horizon in the day and he decreases in light but at least he cannot besiege the sun along with Saturn in the adjacent sign.
Matthew Goulding

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I'm going to give kind of a hint. The planets that are nominated for significators of the manners are Mars and Jupiter and they are in trine. They are both in bad houses, and they are both essentially very strong. Since Mars rules the ASC this should figure into the personality or, as Ptolemy expressed it, "The quality of the soul."

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Tom wrote:The planets that are nominated for significators of the manners are Mars and Jupiter..
hi tom,
can you give us the background on what "significators of the manners" is supposed to mean? how does one arrive a that? thanks.

Mars

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Why not Mercury as LoG? He is angular, western and dignified and Morin was not bothered by combustion. Sure mars affects him from sneaky sign Scorpio so he finds fame in the kingdom but is affected by the 6th/12th axis. Mars in sixth was meant to be surgeon so if Morin was right then mars in 12th could mean that but I incline to prisons being the natives focus in life
Jupiter is in house of partners Money and partners Venus close to Saturn. Jupiter dignified, increasing in light, did he marry older women for her money?
If the chart is ante bellum then a slave owner
MJ
Matthew Goulding

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Lilly in CA, book 3, chapters 107 and 108 "Of the Manners....."

The way I find Lord of Manners:
- planet in the 1st house, close to the Ascendent
- if there is not such planet, find the planet which is in close aspect (3 - 4?)with the Moon or Mercury or find the planet which is in mutual reception with both (better) or with one of them.

Trojan
Reges Subjucent Legibus Stellarum