Significators in a relationship horary?

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Hi,

New to the board and have been perusing the various topics and am impressed by the quality of the posts. I've been working with astrology for 28 years now, but I'm a bit of a novice with respect to horary.

My question concerns significators for a relationship horary. When a person asks question such as "Will x and I be in a relationship?" , the querent is obviously the first house and its ruler, and the quesited is the 7th, which is the relationship. But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th? Or is this determined by other factors, like whether the person is a friend, colleague, or where they met?

It does seem to me that in a question such as this, there are three components, person A, person B, and the relationship, but I'm interested in what an experienced horary practitioner has to say.

Thanks!

Re: Significators in a relationship horary?

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jc wrote:
But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th? Or is this determined by other factors, like whether the person is a friend, colleague, or where they met?
Hi, jc and welcome aboard!

Your assumption is correct, yes, we use the system of derived or turned houses! If the Querent is asking about another person (and their relationship with someone) then we assign the Ascendant to the Querent (unless there is a very solid reason for assigning the Asc to the person captured by the question, for instance in missing persons charts).
The person from the Question that is closer to the Querent then gets the appropriate house. Example: if the Querent is asking about her best friend's love life (and, if she has a good reason to do so instead on her behalf), then the best friend gets the cusp of the 11th - that is her ascendant. Any other person involved in the story then gets the appropriate derived house. In a question "Will my best friend fall in love with N.N.?", N.N. gets the friend's derived 7th house, in this case the 5th.

Cheers,

aglaya

Re: Significators in a relationship horary?

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jc wrote:But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th?

It does seem to me that in a question such as this, there are three components, person A, person B, and the relationship, but I'm interested in what an experienced horary practitioner has to say.

Thanks!
Generally, I think that the detail a horary chart gives in answer to a horary question depends on how intent or meaningful the question was. If the question was more idle curiosity, the chart will be vague at best. If you really need the answer to the question to get on with your life, the chart will respond with much more clarity and detail.

For what it is worth, my take on your question is that while the house chosen is a function of the relationship, as you say, the properties of that house and its ruler may describe the other person to a greater or lesser extent, depending on how meaningful the question was in the first place. So, in your example, (which actually sounds like it would be more on the 'idle curiosity' end of the scale of meaningfulness), the 7th house describes the quesited relationship. And if Saturn on the MC is ruler of the 7th house, then that might indicate person 'X' as an older authoritarian figure.

Now, if person 'X' actually is an older authoritarian figure, then that gives greater weight and validity to a chart which also shows the Sun (ascendant ruler) a few degrees off a trine aspect to Saturn, indicating that yes, there will be a relationship.

Re: Significators in a relationship horary?

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jc wrote: My question concerns significators for a relationship horary. When a person asks question such as "Will x and I be in a relationship?" , the querent is obviously the first house and its ruler, and the quesited is the 7th, which is the relationship. But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th? Or is this determined by other factors, like whether the person is a friend, colleague, or where they met?
Hi JC and welcome to the forum!

Personally I wouldn't see the 7th as the relationship, or indeed see the relationship as some distinct entity from the individuals involved. The 7th, for me, is the other person, or indeed anything Other. So just looking at the 7th, where they're placed, whether they're the more superior or inferior planet, their essential dignity, what planets they separate from etc. this can all tell us about the person enquired after.

Then any aspect between the two significators is going to describe how they come together, whether with friction and only through an application of effort and will (squares) or with relative harmony and ease (trine). Then note which is the quicker planet, and whether any receptions are involved. In some ways, if you had to look for the relationship as a separate thing, then I think you might be as well to look at the aspect as anything else, as it literally describes how the two planets relate, and receptions help add more colour and describe the relationship even more.

Finally the Moon probably describes the querent and her/his concerns, but I think in a lot of ways it just describes the horary in general, and where it separates and applies to is always indicative of something meaningful within the story. Perhaps her motion and aspects also help describe the relationship.

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My question concerns significators for a relationship horary. When a person asks question such as "Will x and I be in a relationship?" , the querent is obviously the first house and its ruler, and the quesited is the 7th, which is the relationship. But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th?
The planet from which the Moon is separating is given to the querent as well while the planet it applies to is given to the person inquired about. If the two planets also apply to each other...well, then there's a fair chance the things may develop in the desired direction, provided the planets are reasonably well-disposed and if reception also intervenes, so much the better.

Regards,
Goran
http://7heavenastrology.wordpress.com
http://klasicnaastrologija.wordpress.com

Re: Significators in a relationship horary?

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jc wrote:My question concerns significators for a relationship horary. When a person asks question such as "Will x and I be in a relationship?" , the querent

is obviously the first house and its ruler, and the quesited is the 7th, which is the relationship. But what of the other person? Is s/he also the 7th? Or is this determined by other factors, like whether the person is a friend, colleague, or where they met?

It does seem to me that in a question such as this, there are three components, person A, person B, and the relationship, but I'm interested in what an experienced horary practitioner has to say.
In relationship questions significator of the querent is lord 1, his co-significator is the Moon. Significator of the quesited is lord 7.

Furthermore the male party in the question gets the Sun, the female party gets Venus.

So, when the querent is a man, his significator is lord 1, his co-significators are the Moon and the Sun.

When the querent is a woman, her significator is lord 1, her co-significators are the Moon and Venus.

Not to complicate things too much, you can equate the quesited party with the relationship of the querent, so that the relationship is signified by the person of the quesited party.

For example, when the significators of the potential wife of the querent are in harmony with his own significators (the very best would be: good applying aspects out of good houses, strong significators with mutual reception), then not only both spouses will be in harmony, but also the marriage will be harmonious.

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Thank you all for your very helpful and thorough responses to my question. I can see now that the 7th is actually not the relationship per se, but the other, and that the aspects are more about the relationship, or lack thereof.

Horary really is its own beast. It reminds me of what Arthur Koestler used to say about chess, which is that it has "fixed rules and flexible strategies". That's a paraphrase, but more or less what I've seen with horaries over the years.

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I've actually seen a chart on a horary board somewhere in the internet world of horary questions (forget which one) where the astrologer turned the chart around used quesisted as the 7th and the 'other' as the first, taking the querent right out of the picture!! Does this work? Seems so strange to me!!!

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AquariusMoonPerson wrote:I've actually seen a chart on a horary board somewhere in the internet world of horary questions (forget which one) where the astrologer turned the chart around used quesisted as the 7th and the 'other' as the first, taking the querent right out of the picture!! Does this work? Seems so strange to me!!!

Can you remember why he did that?

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AquariusMoonPerson wrote:I've actually seen a chart on a horary board somewhere in the internet world of horary questions (forget which one) where the astrologer turned the chart around used quesisted as the 7th and the 'other' as the first, taking the querent right out of the picture!! Does this work? Seems so strange to me!!!
I can't speak for the astrologer who did this, but for a supposed 1stH/7thH circumstance, the 7thH is used to derive a significator for quesited who is the 'other' and the 1stH is used to derive a significator for the querent who is the person asking after another.

To take consideration of the querent and not the quesited out of the picture is strange if a question is being aske about how the two relate; "Is person x putting her safety at risk in this situation with person Y?", "Is person Y in a 'relationship'?", "Is person x being mislead by person Y?", etc. An exception as to when this isn't strange is if you are solely fixated on one of them, the quesited for instance, and questioning what sort of person they are or trying to figure out if they are or aren't in a 'relationship' so as to know to stay away or to retract interest and not interfere intentionally.

All while the MooN sums up emotional involvement in the overall situation.