2
Thank you

I will now add any more to this thread ignoring the outers. Looking again I would guess that the moon is more likely a second house than ascendent. I am still not sure whether Jupiter can break the enclosure of Mars and the ray of Saturn.

The ruler of the Moon is Mercury in fall so not a logical type of person.

Saturn and Mars in the seventh do not have much going for them. Unhappy marriage is one possibility to look at.

Using pof as alt ascendant we see reception between lord 2nd and lord 11th with waxing moon so could make money.

Asc ruler Venus is close to the Sun. I would guess that if this chart was a quadrant one it is the eleventh house. The native aspires the company of prominent people but the Sun is in fall so they may not be good people. Saturn and Mars not dignified in 6th and 12th may indicate health issues.

Pars fortunae then maybe fifth house and Venus suggest interest in art possibly fashion designer though Saturn should be considered for career. Whilst caput draconis is on mc lack of planetary dignity might prevent great honours

Matthew
Last edited by Mjacob on Tue Mar 25, 2014 5:28 pm, edited 5 times in total.
Matthew Goulding

3
Clarification on the outers: they've never been forbidden and some traditionalists use them. We tend to cringe when they're used as sign rulers, though. Even I think they have value in mundane astrology, and I admit to preferring charts without them. But no asteroids or Chiron, OK?

5
Using Maternus's techniques and delineations, Equal Sign houses and sign aspects:

All the in-sect planets are undignified and in the dignity of Mars:

1. Sun (exaltation of none, sign of Saturn, terms of Mars, decan of the Moon | 10th House, F1)
2. Jupiter (exaltation of none, sign of Mercury, terms of Venus, decan of Mars | 2nd House, F9)
3. Saturn (exaltation of none, sign of Mars, terms of Venus, decan of Mars | 6th House, F11)

The out-of-sect planets are in favourable houses, though undignified (except for Mercury, who is in fall):

1. Moon (exaltation of none, sign of Mercury, terms of Mercury, decan of Jupiter | 1st House, F1)
2. Venus (exaltation of none, sign of Saturn, terms of Saturn, decan of Moon | 1st House, F1)
3. Mars (exaltation of none, sign of Jupiter, terms of Jupiter, decan of Mercury | 7th House, F3)
4. Mercury (fall, exaltation of Venus, sign of Jupiter, terms of Venus, decan of Saturn | 10th House, F1)

The Sun:
?In general the Sun in the MC makes the parent of high rank and honorable, especially if a benefic planet is in aspect. The aspect of malefic planets diminishes this prediction.? [Liber Tertius, page 93]
Jupiter is in trine with the Sun from the left, but both are undignified. In addition, Mars sextiles the Sun from the right and Saturn squares the Sun from the right. Due to the stronger malefic influences, we can say that the father is mediocre, most likely middle-class.
?High position, riches and fame are also indicated by Jupiter in trine to the Sun if both are in favorable houses. The native will also win great joy from the successes of children.? [Liber Sextus, page 185]
The Sun is in a favourable house, but in an unfavourable sign. Jupiter is unfavourable in both his house and sign. Based on that, this delineation is very much weakened.
?Saturn and the Sun in square aspect with Saturn above on the right square indicate demotion and loss of position; also contractions of the body from muscular deformity.
They attack the parents with misfortune and makes the father die before the mother. The native suffers from different kinds of wrong-doing and unfortunate experiences; also serious illnesses from cold bodily humors. Their possessions and all occupations are ruined.? [Liber Sextus, page 188]
?If the Moon and the Sun are in trine aspect and both in favorable houses, free of debility, they indicate the rewards of good fortune if they have another benefic planet in favorable aspect and the Moon is waxing.? [Liber Sextus, page 187]
The lights are not in fall and are in favourable houses. Jupiter is in trine with the Sun and Venus is in trine with the Moon. The mitigating factors are that the Sun is in square aspect with a malefic Saturn and the Moon is in opposition to Mars.
?If the Sun and Venus are in same sign...She indicates, however, a miserable marriage or a difficult wife. She brings female slaves to the nuptial bed or deforms the face of the wife with a low-class appearance. For some she predicts wives who are paupers, or old, or sunk in misfortune, or polluted by foul experiences.? [Liber Sextus, page 201]
Jupiter:
?Inheritance from strangers or adoption by strangers is indicated if Jupiter is in the second house. Great riches and possessions are also predicted if Mercury is in aspect in a favorable position. If Mars or Saturn is in aspect from any direction, this will change the native's status and transfer him from respectable to dishonorable occupations. His life will be constantly changing, at one time abounding in riches, at another oppressed by poverty.? [Liber Tertius, page 39]
?Jupiter and Venus in trine in favorable houses indicate great personal charm and pleasing appearance. The natives will always have loving relationships with their friends and their wives. They receive promotions and increases in income through the protection of their wives.? [Liber Sextus, page 185-186]
?Jupiter and Mercury in square aspect with Jupiter...If Mercury is in the superior position, the natives will gain a satisfactory income but will hinder themselves in all their activity, avoiding good opportunities as if they were bad, with a certain timidity of mind. They will the type that, if they attain whatever others desire with their utmost prayers, they will despise it. They do not wish benefits for themselves from others nor do they try to get anything good for themselves.? [Liber Sextus, page 190]
?Jupiter and Mars in opposition indicate an unstable life and continual loss of possessions. Hostility of friends is stirred up, and there is the greatest danger from riots or rash activities.? [Liber Sextus, page 195]
?Jupiter and the Moon in the same sign indicate the greatest good fortune, especially if they are in the same degree. For then they bestow infinite riches and such marks of prosperity that the natives are always superior to their parents.? [Liber Sextus, page 200]
Saturn:
?Destruction of the entire inheritance in indicated by Saturn in the sixth house. He always makes a bad prediction in this house. He brings illnesses, especially if the waning Moon is in conjunction with him or in opposition or square aspect. This will produce men who are unlucky, unstable, of bad repute, never able to settle in one place.? [Liber Tertius, page 77]
?Those who have Saturn in trine to Mercury in both in favorable houses will be intelligent and talented, addicted to all kinds of learning, serious character in early life. Their point of view is always supported by vigorous arguments. They will be in charge of public accounts or the privy purse and make a large income from these occupations.? [Liber Sextus, page 185]
The negative form of this will manifest: the native is unnecessarily argumentative and pedantic, and they are obsessed with some kind of learning.
?If Saturn and Venus are in square aspect with Saturn above, the natives will lose all inheritance and be reduced to beggary. They have bitter experiences with women; there is no pleasure in love nor successful results from their desires.? [Liber Sextus, page 188]
We are seeing several indications of gaining and losing of wealth now. Also, there are two testimonies of an unhappy sexual relationship or marriage.

Finally, let's look at Mars, for he is on an angle and is undignified, so his malefic effects will show up prominently and early in life:
?Mars in the seventh house, that is, on the descendant, indicates the greatest evils and enormous perils. He will make the natives suffer as criminals and murderers, be defendants accused as discoverers of new crimes, of they will be torturers, executioners, or informers...if the ascendant is not in the house of Mars, he makes the natives short-lived, especially if his is in aspect to the full Moon on the ascendant or the MC (that is, in square aspect or opposition).? [Liber Tertius, page 84-85]
?If Mercury and Mars are in square aspect and Mars holds the superior part of a right square, this indicates a fearful outcome to all evils. It weakens the native with constant pains, attacks all his occupations with reverses, makes him the victim of evil rumors, and stirs up dreadful dangers of accusations, so that all these difficulties end in prison. These evils grow stronger in a diurnal chart but are lessened in a nocturnal.? [Liber Sextus, page 191]


In summary:

1) The native is born into a middle-class family. In terms of his wealth, sometimes he is well-off, and sometimes he is poor. When he is well-off, he is probably upper-middle-class, and when poor, lower-middle class.

2) The native is unlucky in love, unable to secure the women that he desires; when he does find a woman he likes, he is unable to obtain her affection. Those women that he can get, he is not attracted to.

3) He experiences major ups and downs in career.

4) As for the kind of career, I don't see anything prominent. He may very well be a con-artist, with a somewhat elegant charm that allows him to scam people (Mercury in fall, in square aspect to Mars and Mercury is in the terms of Venus). Otherwise he can be an unscrupulous lawyer or businessman, or a murderer, executioner etc as described by one of the quotes above.

5) He has illnesses of the nature of Saturn and according to the qualities of Scorpio; in this case being in a watery sign makes Saturn's natural signification of cold diseases stronger, so perhaps cold, flu, edema, chills. He may have nearly drowned too. Scorpio also signifies the sex organs, so perhaps problems with his genitals. Since Scorpio is watery and moveable, perhaps problems with urine circulation or the like.

6) Violent death. Manner of death would be of the nature of Mars: cuts and/or burns. Since Mars is in the fiery sign of Saggitarius, burns are more likely, so he could have died in a fire accident, or he was burned at the stakes :), or he had abnormally high fever, or blood problems, etc. In a common sign he may have suffered injuries in several different parts of the body, likely including the thighs.


Oops, sorry for the long post.
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

6
Larxene wrote: .
Oops, sorry for the long post.
No need to apologise, I intend adding a bit more myself. I have tried to avoid reading too much of your post in case it influences my attempt to come up with something but it will certainly be interesting to see how Maternus shapes up in practice. I did notice about making and losing money and thought along those lines too but will examine chart again to check my reasoning.

Matthew
Matthew Goulding

7
It is important to synthesise your own reading before reading other people's work. I always create my own delineation before reading other people's interpretation with these mystery charts. Very often in astrology, we find out about the native's life and then make a reading to fit his life. This kind of hindsight delineation is good for learning new principles for first time, but when trying to improve our ability to read a chart, it is better to read the chart first and make our inferences, then check for the veracity of the information in the native's life (foresight delineation).
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

9
3rd and 9th axis rulers indicate shifty and dishonest. Moon and Jupiter in Gemini second house indicate Change of fortune.probably got rich by swindling his rich friends and ended up in jail.

Venus in 11th sex for recreation not procreation

All went wrong at age 27 due to profection of PF
Matthew Goulding

10
thanks to everyone who participated in this exercise!

feel free to comment more on the chart, now that i am sharing the person behind the chart. fwiw, he has been in jail for some time and is set for release sometime in the coming year. i was listening to an interview on cbc radio a few weeks ago by a french writer(Emmanuel Carrere) who had written a book on him. i found his interview quite fascinating and was motivated to see if i could find a chart on this fellow romand. as it turns out carrere also has his chart up on adb as well, so i have included that down below for anyone interested in him astrologically.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean-Claude_Romand

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Romand,_Jean-Claude

The Adversary: A True Story of Monstrous Deception by Emmanuel Carrere

carrere's adb page - http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Car ... ,_Emmanuel

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Well, I've got near hits. He was certainly a con-artist, but I failed to see the occupation he disguised himself as. I guess I should have looked at the square between Mars and Mercury, which testifies about being a doctor. According to Valens (iirc), Mercury and Mars makes physicians (by that I understand he is talking about doctors).

He almost died from a fire, which is what I said to be the cause of death. But probably because Jupiter was in-sect and in opposition to the 8th House, he saved the native from a violent death. But his beneficence is not strong enough, for he is undignified and in an unfortunate house, so the native still ended up prosecuted by the court (Jupiter is in Gemini, the house of Mercury, and Mercury signifies accusations and the court).

I'll have more to say on this matter later.
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.