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Hi Lucas

I think this will be an interesting chart with the Sun conjunct Venus and Mercury on the MC, with Mars in square from the descendant. As I am currently working through the text of the second book of Dorotheus, I thought it would add a few quotes from that work that fit to this chart. Will be interesting to see how they measure up. I find myself chuckling at some of the comments - they seem so extreme.

On the square of Mars to the Sun, Venus and Mercury:
"... if Mars is in the tenth place from the Sun, then it indicates that this [native] will relax at the beginning of his life, but disease will increase at the end of his life, and ruin will descend upon him, and calamity will be continuous".

"If Mars is in the tenth place from Venus, then it is bad in nativities because it produces misfortune and disaster and diseases because of women; [worse if the sign is tropical, so presumably it is better here that it occurs in fixed signs]"

"If Mars is overpowering Mercury, he will do things shocking among people, and it will imbue the native with reasons for misery from every place and it will harm him in quarrels and work and everything that he concerns himself with, and slander will come to him from his relatives and the place of his secret; the misfortune is worse than this at a diurnal nativity, while at a nocturnal nativity it is less."

Another quote on the square of Mars to the Sun:

"[If] malefics aspect [the Sun] (especially if it is Mars from opposition or quartile), then it indicates terror because of fire or a terrible death or evil rising up in him or a [bad] name or yelling or murder arises, and some of them will be food for lions ..."
So it sounds like this person ought to have had some troubles and controversies in his life!

Dorotheus does at least see some benefit in the conjunction of the Sun with Venus, and some pleasurable or artistic talent in its conjunction with Mercury:
"If the Sun is with Venus, western in nocturnal nativities and eastern in diurnal nativities, then he will be praiseworthy [and] welcome. If Mercury is with the Sun, eastern or western, then he will be gentle, a scribe, [and] he will have status for his culture and reasoning, and he will be a chief and will benefit others."

"If Venus is with Mercury, he will be lazy in [his] jobs, desirous of joy and pleasure, abounding in women, adorned with culture and words, loquacious in poetry because he will compose pleasing [and] beautiful words, but he will be disconcerted because of intercourse with women ... "
On the place of the Sun:
"If the Sun is in the ascendent or midheaven in its own house or a male sign, then it will be good. If the benefics aspect it from the tenth place, he will be praiseworthy, a leader over groups in nobility; and it indicates similarly if it is in midheaven except that he will have few brothers. "
On the place of Mars
If Mars is in opposition to the ascendent, then it is bad because he [the native] will die or run away from his city or fall in misery, and it is worse than this if it is in other than its portion and not in its place as misfortune and fire and disobedience will come to him from an evil act. Know which this is of the kinds of signs in which Mars is.
Food for thought, perhaps? Thanks for submitting this.

Is it possible you can crop the sides of the image, so that's its not necessary to scroll to read the posts?
Last edited by Deb on Tue Mar 04, 2014 5:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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hi lucas,

thanks for doing this! i always find it fun trying to figure out mystery charts!!!

obviously the sun/venus in very close conjunction is especially interesting in so far as taurus is rising and libra has some planets in it too.. and the mars in such a prominent position in the 10th to these planets while being on the descendant is very difficult to integrate with the sun/venus conjunction!

ordinarily i would say someone involved in the arts or music, but with mars in this angle if that was the case i would think something physical like dance or acting more then just music for example. moon in leo fits a more drama like activity. saturn in the 5th house area also might emphasize some creative outlet too.. with taurus rising and that strong square between venus and mars - the 2 rulers of his ascendant axis, perhaps a real sensual and sexual aura surrounds this person for good and bad.

another part of the chart makes me think religious or political however. this would be the jupiter/saturn bundled around the north node in the solar 9th.. i still can't figure how that works with mars on the descendant though! if he is some sort of religious or political person i think it would have to be something unorthodox or strange! maybe a cult leader, lol...

this one has me stumped.. mars is so strong in this chart i don't really like either of my ideas that much!! i even thought diplomat which might seem strange, but mars rules the 7th and 12th and seems to have the upper hand in this chart in many regards. pof in scorpio as well, so mars is in the first house of the pof too.. i look forward to the answer and others input!!!

take 2, lol.. here is another wacky way for me to go about this. lets say the very close connection of sun to venus gives venus some special status. i think that is what the theory books say.. now both of them are in the midheaven which is generally considered fortuitous.. perhaps it is more fortuitous for the sect of light - sun then it is for venus a planet connected to the nocturnal sect.. but that aside, venus is said to rule 2 signs - taurus and libra.. venus is in a square aspect to taurus and a trine aspect to libra.. the trine is said to be more fortuitous then the square.. if this has any relevance, libra on the 6th house cusp - or the solar 9th) might have more to say on how it acts for good here then it being the lord of the ascendant since it is in square to the ascendant.

this brings me back to a focus on the libra 6th house with saturn and jupiter in it. jupiter rules the 8th. perhaps the strong mars is testimony of this person being involved as a surgeon? this would fit with a strong mars, but i am still unsatisfied with where i have gotten here!

aside from the rising sign taurus, there is no earth here. mercury while strong by sign and house position, is weak being so close to the sun.. mars is still the vocational indicator according to the idea it is the first planet rising before the sun. however the close conjunction of sun/venus seems to change this for me.. moon in the solar 6th house re-emphasizes the 6th house health type focus i was thinking with surgeon.. the last aspect the moon would have made would also have been with mars via a trine otherwise it is not really connected to much or a bit like a dumb note in this chart.. i sometimes wonder if one can see whether the chart is of a good or a bad person. i think it is easy to project badness onto a chart if you see mars on the descendant - what's his name had this - ted bundy!~ maybe the chart has the makings of a good murderer too fwiw!

with the exception of the moon, the chart is very western hemisphere emphasis. that seems to suggest the importance of working with other people as opposed to being involved in some type of vocation that is solitary or hugely independent.. i continue to be stumped, but i am having fun!!!

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As the answer will be posted soon I must be brief. Probably choleric and angular Mars or exalted Saturn close to Dragons head most important planets. Mercury retro said to be rebellious so as it approaches Sun close to MC perhaps anti-establishment. Mercury and Venus near MC but so close to Sun perhaps cannot act as significators of profession so look at ruler Saturn. Out of sect but dignified in 5th so perhaps entertainer artist. If we allow Mars as in mundo sq to mercury from place of dignity then gifted with words so in context satiric comedian is my first impression.

merc in 10th unsettled in place and Mars in 7th perhaps exile abroad. If in prime during war then maybe propagandist instead.

Matthew

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Occupation = I would look at the 6th and 10th for vocation.
Venus is the L1 and L6. It is conj. the MC but combust (just not cazimi).
The Moon is the exalation ruler of L1 in Leo - this reinforces the artistic flavour of the above configuration. Moon in the 3rd (if using equal houses).
Mercury is part of the MC configuration, but it is R and as evening star out of sect.
The ruler of the ASC, Sun, Venus and Mercury is an exalted Saturn, but R and out of sect.
So the potential is there for some artistic daimon, a messenager of some sort, but I have the impression that although the message might be good, it will not be easy for this person to bring it across.
Look forward to hearing more about it.

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Tentatively, an artist of some sort, most likely an actor/actress or a musician/singer [Reason: Venus with Mercury in the 10th sign, Venus in the heart of the Sun.]

Maternus has this to say about the ascendant:
Those who have the ascendant in the 24th degree (of Taurus) will be musicians. [Matheseos Libri VIII, Bram, Liber Octavus, Chapter XX, 7]
Then again, Mars can also be considered a significator as it is in square to the 10th sign...not sure.
Interested in Hellenistic astrology? Visit my blog.

The appearance changes, but the essence remains.

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Hello all! Well this is the chart of a man called Jos? Gabriel da Costa. He is a Brazilian, founder of the largest ayahuasca drinking religion in the world as of today. And this chart is a chart that looked nothing like what I would have imagined, so I really wanted to see what everyone else would see!

Born in a poor family in Bahia, being one of 14 children he did not receive much education, though it is said he was a very astute child who learned all that the limited school nearby had to teach. He had an amazing dexterity, riding on horses while standing, and even earned the title of mestre capoeira (Brazilian martial art/dance) without ever having lessons because of his skill when defending a friend in a fight who was attacked by a practitioner of capoeira, during his youth. When he turned 18 he enlisted in the army to work as a ?rubber soldier? or in other words, men who were sent to the middle of the amazon to to work as a rubber tapper to supply the Brazilian army and its allies during WWII. There he earned the title of Tuchaua, which was a title given to the man who collected the most rubber per year. After leaving the forest he worked as a manual brick maker until the end of his life, when he died after tripping and hitting his head on a rock.
But the interesting aspect of his life runs around spiritual issues.
Since a young age he was the one that guided the family prayers at his home, being born and raised catholic. As a young man while in the amazon he became a ?Pai de Santo? (this is and afro-spiritualist term used in certain Brazilian religions) or a man who incorporates spirits and works as a kind of witch doctor, counseling people on what they should do with their lives, as well as prescribing natural medicine.
After a while he encountered the tea, and showing great clarity, he transmitted a series of spiritual teachings and established a religion, with its own religious doctrine, based around the tea and traditional Christian principles. Teachings are transmitted orally either through explanations and word games or through chants which invoke spiritual energies and express spiritual knowledge.
Though a man that gained very little public expression in his life time, his creation has been gaining more momentum with time, and as of today this 50 year old religion called UDV is present in 6 countries and has been granted its religious rights, to practice their rituals in the USA by the Supreme court on a unanimous decision.

http://udvusa.org/supreme-court-case/

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As for the chart:
In delineating profession, I see mars as term ruler of the sect light, with a close square to the midheaven, and very much angular. It also rules fortune, and is in the fortune chart 1st house, and is therefore my selection as a professional significator, in accord to what most of you pointed out.
But I was expecting to see some strong 9th house emphasis on this chart, which I really didn?t see. Lord of 9th is succedent by mundane houses, cadent by whole sign houses, and retrograde. The only thing I could give him is that he is the moons next application. And yes, mars is the almuten of the 9th so he could be somehow tied to religious affairs as well.
Let?s observe this chart from the point of view of the lot of fortune and spirit:
(Also remembering Robert Hand describing the 9th house as the religion currently in power and the 3rd is the religion currently out of power, the sun god and the moon goddess)
I note the moon, ruler of the third in the WS 4th, mundanely candent but upon the fortune 10th, ruling the fortune 9th and applying to a very close square to the lot of fortune. Here we have the lord of the natal 3rd tying Nat. 3rd/ fort. 9th house issues to actions and status.
And looking at the spirit (~14 degrees Sag.) chart we find the moon on the 9th spirit house. Though I?ve never heard any one comment on this I noted spirit ruler on the ?spiritual place of gain(?)?
Any how the moon?s strong relationship to religion is very much redundant, and potent through the fortune chart.
I also noted 2 planets were recently in phase (7 days prior to birth): mercury heliacally set and Jupiter stationed retrograde, which would grant power of expression to both planets. A Jupiter mercury combo does make one quite well versed in rhetoric and philosophy, and seeing as many of his teachings are transmitted through chants and hymns I think the Mercury+Sun+Venus conjunction on the MC is quite descriptive.

Well those are my observations regarding this chart. Hope you all enjoyed it!
My sources for the information are firsthand accounts from the children and disciples of this man as well as one of his (14!!!) brothers, all of which I had a chance to talk to as well as participation in this religion?s rituals.

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hey lucas! fascinating! thanks so much for doing this.. i like using solar houses as they pick up a focus in an area which emphasizes the importance of the sun in astrology. as i saw the chart, the planets in libra - 9th sign to aquarius - are 9th house to the sun. although some astrologers think of this as an indian derivative house technique, i believe it goes back further then that.. do another one. this was cool!
james_m wrote: another part of the chart makes me think religious or political however. this would be the jupiter/saturn bundled around the north node in the solar 9th.. i still can't figure how that works with mars on the descendant though! if he is some sort of religious or political person i think it would have to be something unorthodox or strange! maybe a cult leader, lol...

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Hey James!
I meant to quote that part of you're delineation but I was a bit in a hurry. You we're quite close to the answer on that one! I've noticed solar charts to be interesting in delineating profession and fame, especially the when noting the position of the sun's dispositor, but havent had much practice trying that out. For a while I've been observing the sun's placement in relation to the lot of the sun (spirit) and the moon's placement relative to the lot of the moon (fortune) and have been getting interesting results, as I mentioned the 3rd/9th house emphasis.
I really got stuck on the moon because the UDV religion was created on the night of July 22 1961, the day of the solar ingress in Leo, which is amazing in itself, since at the moment of the solar ingress the sun transited Jose Gabriel's natal moon, and the transiting moon was conjunct his natal mars by one minute and square the nodes, which leads me to believe that this religion was created precisely at the ingress!!! but that's speculation since no one knows the actual time.
It was also during a Moon/mercury firdaria, during a 4th house profection year, where moon was therefore ruler of the year. LOTS of moon in the ordeal!

I'll look into a another mystery chart soon, when I have some time. I'm going to defend my final project and get my degree in Engineering next week :D



Here are the two charts, his natal and the Leo Ingress:
Image