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Introduction to Chinese Zodiacal Horoscopic Astrology

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Joined: 06 Jun 2017
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Posted: Tue Jun 13, 2017 12:38 am    Post subject: Introduction to Chinese Zodiacal Horoscopic Astrology Reply with quote

Hellenistic, Joytish, and Persian Astrology had all found their way to China through a different period of time.  Concept and techniques were blended with the Chinese way of interpretation and were integrated into many different practices, such as Feng Shui.  In Chinese, it is called Qi Zhen Si Yu (七政四余), or Guo Lao Xing Zong (果老星宗). 
One of the first known written record regarding zodiac was in Sui Dynasty (581-618 CE).  Buddhist Sutra(大方等日藏经) was translated by an Indian Buddhist Master.  Zodiacal signs were all translated in the sutra.  For instance, Capricorn in Sanskrit is Makara, and in Chinese, it is mo-jie摩羯, or 磨羯 in the translation, and kept the first syllable phonic. Jie means a wether or a neutered goat.  
Whole sign house is used in Qi Zhen, and the use of Sect light is emphasized.  The concept of four seasons is to differentiate the strength of the planets and the incorporation of the Five Element Theory are some of the special features of Qi Zhen.  
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Joined: 15 Dec 2011
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Posted: Wed Jul 05, 2017 3:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello jasonchen626, and welcome to the forum. Very Happy

Even though I am a practitioner of Western Ancient Astrology as well as Four Pillars of Destiny, and I acknowledge the deep the connection between the Ancient, Indian and Chinese systems in my 24 hour astrological rectification course, the information you provided is new to me, and I find it fascinating.

Where can I find more about the connection between these ancient branches?

I was told by a Chinese practitioner that BaZi and Zi Wei Dou Shu are simplified from Qizhengsiyu, which derives from Indian Astrology.
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Posted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 12:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Zagata=)
From what my understanding was that they are all different systems, with very little similarities. However, there is a fusion between Bazi and Qi Zhen Si Yu. In the Qing Dynasty, it is very often that both of these systems were used together.
Bazi utilized the Heavenly Stem which is, in essence, the Five planets in its Yin Yang Form. Earthly branches actually are like the twelve houses. And there are 28 Ren Yuan or the Hidden Stem, which correlates to the 28 lunar mansions. At first, it was more just for time-keeping, but the system of using it for divination was developed. The first major phase of development has more planetary, and fix star meanings to them. For instance, Yin, Shen, Si, Hai, the four Zhang Shen, has a correlation to the movable their movable and double-body nature. These four branches contain the Shen Sha Yi Ma (驿马), or the horse. Having more of these branches in the pillar can also mean the chance of having twins. In Yu Shen Zhao Zhen Jing (玉神照真经), you can find the twelve house system used specifically for Bazi.
When different branches of Astrology was introduced in China, there is a fusion, addition, and different explanations to the chart. In one of the schools of Qi Zhen Si Yu, the four pillars were emphasized in the horoscope. For instance, if one has two Zi in their Bazi, it means Aquarius house is emphasized. If one is born in the year of Gui Hai (癸亥), 空亡, or the Empty Shen Sha will be Chou (丑),and that means any planets and Shen Sha in Capricorn will lose its power.

Zi Wei Dou Shu I think is influenced by the twelve house system from Qi Zhen Si Yu, but it is quite different. There are 14 main planets used, but they are not the physical planets that we can see or measure. The name of the planets may come from two Buddhist Sutras: 佛說北斗七星延命經》、《太上說南斗六司延壽度人妙經》. There are secondary and tertiary stars used, in conjunction with Shen Sha 神煞.
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Posted: Sat Jul 15, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello jasonchen626,

Thank you for your answers and the references. Unfortunately I don't speak Chinese, much less its classical form, though I certainly wish I did.

I knew that the Chinese, like the Arabs, use the 28 Mansions of Moon, not the 27 that the Indians do, but this is the first time I read that they are connected with the Hidden Stems.

I did not know either that the 4 Stables (Tiger, Snake, Monkey and Pig) are indicative of twins.

Note how the Chinese system differs here from the Western one. As you said, these 4 are movable because they are the starting images of the seasons, but it is the double-bodied, last/3rd ones in the Western branch (Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius and Pisces) that are indicative of twins, again provided that there are more of them in the chart.

Where does the association come from between the Rat and Aquarius? Is it because the Solar year starts on the first New Moon in (tropical) Aquarius and the Rat being the first image of the Zodiac?

You used the Year Pillar for the Void Stars. So with Yin Water Pig year, they are the Rat and the Ox, but from what I know it is the Day Pillar where the Void Stars are primarily counted from, though some Chinese practitioners also take note of the Year Pillar, as with a lot of stars in BaZi. Do you give precedence to the Year or Day Pillar in using the Void Stars?
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