32
thanks sc. that is one of the 3 charts for ukraine in campions book - 8 degree cap rising aug 24 1991.. i tend to think all the charts have some validity and am not sold on just using 1 chart for a country.. i suppose i am really trying to move away from relying on national charts to exploring working with ingress charts for a particular location which as i understand it, is the way astrologers in previous times did this prior to the concept of nationalism..

that said it is especially interesting to see the ingress charts and how they overlap with these national charts too.. 8 cap rising in the aug 91 chart and 11 aries on the midheaven of the dec 91 chart both have the mars station at 9 libra and the rising degree in the spring and summer ingress chart connected back to these important degrees in either chart.

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oleg_of_Novgorod

No report or comment of those I've so far read has mentioned he historical background of the present events. Actually, Ukraine/Kiev (next to Novgorod) formed the basis of what was to become Russia. See the link given above.
So the year 882 has to be taken into account when dealing with both Russian and Ukraine history.
As I have explained here the SUN at 15:00 AQU is the real start of the year - more important than the vernal ingress when it comes to getting an insight into the energies of that year.
The chart for Kiev ("Octilogram"), 882:
Image
AC at 10,x CAP - a degree we've come across in this thread more than once (see the chart inserted by Stefan).
Equally important: UR at 13,x LIB - now square PL tr . In late April there'll be JU tr and UR tr joining. UR is antisc. 16,x VIR - a degree extremely "eruptive" .
The chart above also gives the present Tert.Progressions II - and there we find UR/NE/SUN in conjunction - with NE pr conj. UR in the basic chart. It seems that the future borders of Ukraine will not be the present ones.
(The results found when looking at e.g. sec.progressions do not essentially differ.)
LL
Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est.

What about the Retrogrades?

35
I know you guys are pretty focused on the charts, which of course is of essential matter, but don't you think that the retro-show of late by Jupiter, Mars and Saturn, and to some extent Venus and Mercury, cast an interesting shade on this?

Jupiter went retro in Cancer on 8 Nov and will turn direct on Friday, while Mars went retro in Libra last Monday and Saturn in Scorpio on Tuesday. In between retrograded through half Capricorn almost down to the Ascendant of one of the Ukraine charts used here, and Mercury had a Pis/Aqu retro tour until last Saturday. It creates an interesting "time window" anyhow, fitting well in, and where we now are somewhere in the center or getting towards.

I know these are global influences, but whole this "issue" starts to look pretty global to me and is not just about Ukraine any longer? I've been, and still am, pretty busy and haven't done much astrology on it, but if the world still is around hope to do so from Monday/Tuesday.

In interesting question to ask here, I think, is if a direct Jupiter from Friday will serve to improve things or will it actually put its fan on the bad and escalate matters?
/Joakim

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun every year.

http://www.astrocalc.com

36
Crimea?s parliament voted to join Russia on Thursday and its Moscow-backed government set a referendum within 10 days on the decision in a dramatic escalation of the crisis over the Ukrainian Black Sea peninsula.
The sudden acceleration of moves to bring Crimea, which has an ethnic Russian majority and has effectively been seized by Russian forces, formally under Moscow?s rule came as European Union leaders gathered for an emergency summit to seek ways to pressure Russia to back down and accept mediation.
The Crimean parliament voted unanimously ?to enter into the Russian Federation with the rights of a subject of the Russian Federation?. The vice premier of Crimea, home to Russia?s Black Sea military base in Sevastopol, said a referendum on the status would take place on March 16.
The announcement, which diplomats said could not have been made without Russian President Vladimir Putin?s approval, raised the stakes in the most serious east-west confrontation since the end of the Cold War.
Crimea could also adopt the Russian rouble as its currency and ?nationalise? state property as part of plans to join the Russian Federation, a regional official was quoted as saying on Thursday.




Ukraine 1991;


6-March-2014 010?,59'22 Aries Ura 135 Jup transit

6-March-2014 025?,23'21 Taurus Moon 135 Black Moon transit

6-March-2014 010?,59'41 Aries Ura 135 Merc transit

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A. H. Cats wrote: Ukraine 1991;
6-March-2014 010?,59'22 Aries Ura 135 Jup transit
It may be worth noting that globally, Jupiter and Uranus form an approaching almost exact square, which soon will be exact as Jupiter starts to move direct. Furthermore, Pluto is opposite Jupiter, with a 2 1/2 deg orb, setting up a quite explosive T-square imo.

I wonder if Pluto here symbolizes the treaty behind Ukraine giving up its Nuclear weapons in exchange of guaranties for their territorial sovereignty being respected, signed by Russia, US and some others. Russia is clearly breaking that agreement if they now let Crimea become an integrated part of the Russian Federation. I see no way the rest of the world can accept that, even if it goes to direct military conflict or we indeed will have 1936-39 all over again. Not sure what would be the trigger though but this can really turn sour!
/Joakim

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun every year.

http://www.astrocalc.com

38
thanks lunlumo,

below is a chart for 2014 kiev sun @ 15 aq ingress. one could say 9-13 cardinal is emphasized.

hi joakim,

it is tricky to not get caught up in the propaganda as so much of it is going around! it is probably best to focus on the astrology though. that is what the moderators say here at skyscript.. ps - it wouldn't be the first time a lot os lies were used to promote more war.. cheers - james

another quick note.. jupiter goes direct in another 4 hours local time here... venus is moving slowly, but picking up steam.. it is possible that a breathe of fresh air will come, given the movement of these positives, while mars, saturn and mercury are now retro. that is one positive thought to hold to with the retro/forward direction of the planets here..

Image

photo hosting software

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Hi james, not sure what propaganda you are hinting at that I (possibly) would be caught up in but I think my "common sense" filter still works pretty well and my focus is certainly on the astrology. Doesn't mean one cannot touch on sensitive subjects though in relation to it or should close ones eyes for potential dark outcomes. In the end, and I think it's important to attach that to the astrology, history is shaped by choices and actions done by men of free will, not by planetary positions, which isn't to say that they lack bearing and influences.

Anyway, if Mercury still is retrograde in your software you may need to get another one, afaik it has been direct for almost a week now. cheers and take care.
/Joakim

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun every year.

http://www.astrocalc.com

40
hi joakim

thanks! i have a 6 day window for stationary planets.. yes - mercury turned direct at 18 aq about 5.7 days ago, lol.. i got that one backwards..

i only mentioned the propaganda as the word hitler was mentioned.. if that isn't an obvious sign of propaganda, i don't know what is. that's all.. funny little man was the other line i found slanted one way. do we say this about obama as well? cheers james

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Hi James,
thanks fo that chart. With AC conj the northern Node in SCO there's the danger of being carried away by unreflected and "enforced" national impulses. And MO conj UR and additional squares in - you mentioned it - cardinal signs: I think there might be other countries and populations endangered by the more or less sudden move towards splitting up. MO/UR is conj DC when related to London - it might have to do with the vote on Scottish independence.
LL
Non coerceri maximo, contineri minimo divinum est.

42
I have come to wonder if this whole "affair" isn't more about Russia (or even Putin) actually than Ukraine, so I hesitated whether to post this here or in this thread but decided for where the actual action is, at least now.

That other thread above presents a rectified chart for Russia 25 Dec 1991 at 19:42:32 rather than 19:45 as given in Champions book, and well it doesn't matter so much in this case at least.

So, of the ongoing T-square with Jupiter/Pluter opp, square Uranus, it's interesting to notice that Jupiter not only have been passing over Russia SN but also was stationary right there the other day, while the situation actually deteriorated imo. Anyway, I find this rather significant although it can be questionably how much this alone "contributes" to the situation? But I think it's important to stress that Jupiter isn't always a good or beneficial influence and I think a conjunction with SN is actually a quite good example of when that easily can come true.

But I was looking for something else, and particularly that involves the Sun which at first sight seems to be unafflicted by transits . A closer look shows that not to be the case though. Saturn is indeed currently in a more or less exact Nonagon (or Novile if you like) 40 deg. transit to the Sun and interestingly it also includes a stationary phase as Saturn just turned Retrograde the other day.

In my view, so called minor aspects aren't of lesser importance that the so called major, especially if they are exact and it also includes transits. Nonagons belongs in the same aspects family as the trine and obviusly doesn't have the same dynamic impact as e.g. sesquiquadrate would have, but with Saturn in Scorpio this could e.g. mean a hidden, indirect or in other way non seen impact.

Anyway, there isn't much written on the minors but Sakoian and Acker wrote a small booklet back in 1978, which probably is, if not the first so at least one other first publications concerning minors in modern time. According to them, and I quote "The departing nonagon corresponds to 10 deg of Taurus in the natural Zodiac, belonging to the Virgo decanate and Virgo duad of Taurus. The approaching nonnagon corresponds to 20 deg of Aquarius in the Libra decanate and Libra duad of Aquarius".

I'm a fan of Rudhyar and particullarily finds his "An Astrological Manada" useful and applying to the situation (or the chart) what he says on these degrees are quite interesting if not astonishing. I think what we have here is an approaching (correct me if I'm wrong) Nonagon so I will begin to quote Aquarius 20 EDIT: In the book this corresponds to AQU 21
An Astrological Mandala - Aquarius 21 deg wrote:A disappointed and disillusioned woman courageously faces a seemingly empty life
Keynote: The capacity to meet emotionally upsetting experiences in human relationships with strength of character and personal integrity.
The man who manages vast and complex business enterprises most often reaches power and achieves success because of his ability to deal with crises and temporary reverses of fortune. At the emotional level we now see a "woman" confronted with sharp disappointment and forced to face the vanishing of cherished illusions, presumably in terms of a close personal relationship. She has to learn to manage such crises, which are really tests of inner strength and perhaps compassion. We all have within ourselves the power to learn through emotional crises. But like any other faculty it needs development.

This is the first symbol in the sixty-fifth five fold sequence. it urges us to develop RESILIENCE under adversity
This was of course not written with a mundane perspective in mind, so one have to "rethink" it maybe or in this case can it possibly be applied on the person "behind" Russia representing the Sun here, Putin? Didn't he lose her wife recently? If you are doing "grief work" and is the leader of (ex. maybe) a super power, wouldn't that "shine through"? Well I guess I'm looking for an alternative, hidden angle/cause here, trying to understand why Putin and Russia behave as they do, I may be totally wrong.

There are of course more "visible" reasons as well, transit Saturn cnj Venus in Scorpio, but even that is of course by nature "hidden" to a rather large degree. Maybe Russia's financial situation is much worse than what shows, tensions growing and what's better then than banging the nationalism drum, we have seen this before.

Anyway, I think this Ukraine "affair", if not already is, can come to develop into something very bad for Russia and as I read somewhere else, and I mean this symbolically, "the may win this battle but will lose the war". Can this signify the beginning of the end of the "Putin era", maybe conclusive when Saturn later transits the Russian Sun? Jusat throwing out a thought here though as I haven't been down that road in depth investigating.
/Joakim

Living on Earth may be expensive, but it includes a free trip around the sun every year.

http://www.astrocalc.com