Hi folks, this is a personal one so am naturally having trouble reading it. The late ascendant may either be a warning or a description, so I'd appreciate some objective input!

Background: I dated Ian for a few months, but we split up because circumstances made it very difficult for me to date anyone at that time...this was nearly a year ago. The split was mainly amicable, and we have stayed in sporadic contact via text, although he had gone back to dating a previous girlfriend in the meantime. In October he suddenly got back into contact again, and began texting me at regular intervals; I assume (though I didn't ask) he was no longer with the ex-GF. However, he made no move to ask me out, so after two months of texting but no progress I told him (politely) that if he wasn't going to move things forward it was better that he move on instead. I don't want to waste my time!

Hence my question:

Will Ian ask me out?
19 December 2013
0549 a.m.
Comberton, ENG

Scorpio ASC 29.27... here we have a late ascendant. Very late. Lilly says that a late ascendant can mean either it's 'too late' (as the case may be), the querent has been playing around with the question (I hadn't) or that the querent despairs. That much is true.

L1 Mars and L7 Venus are in applying trine, in strong mutual reception, but as we know Venus is slow in motion on this date and about to retrograde back to an eventual square with Mars, still in mutual reception. Venus gets much interference before the aspect perfects (aspects to Saturn and Jupiter, etc) so I'm unsure whether it counts.

The Moon is what intrigued me, however, in dignity and imminently conjuncting Jupiter Rx in its exaltation. Both are debilitated somewhat by placement in the 8th, and Jupiter is retrograde. I confess that this ultimatum I gave Ian *did* cause me anxiety (hence the early hour of asking), as I had always hoped we could get back together or at least have a drink and talk it over. Jupiter rules the 4th in this chart: a happy ending? Or just an ending? The Moon is also applying, once past Jupiter, to Saturn, L3 (communications), placed in the dark of the 12th house.

Also what I was wondering, and have tried in vain to find some information on, is whether, because the ASC is so late, Jupiter becomes the 'next' L1. I've never seen this in other horaries and it's probably grasping at straws .

I would much appreciate any input. I realise I am likely flogging a dead horse/chart here, but I am interested in this chart not just as a personal investment, but because the late ASC and the conjunction of the dignified Moon with the dignified Greater Benefic sort of run counter to one another, or simply tell a story I am unable to objectively read as it's my own.

Thanks!
Gunhilde

Hi, Gunhilde!

I notice that your chart was cast about 20 days ago - have you considered asking the same Question again? Personally, i would probably give it a second chance - if the late Ascendant in the 1st chart is the result of hastiness, wrong timing or any other reason that usually results in a non-radical chart, then, if you still think that your question is worth asking and if you believe that you're ready to hear the answer, the 2nd chart would perhaps give you a better overview of the situation. if, on the other hand, the late Ascendant signifies that the situation is already a matter of past, the 2nd chart would surely confirm it. I don't think you have anything to lose if you ask the Question again. But, then again, that is just my opinion.

The ruler of the hour and the Ascendant ruler are the same planet so, the chart is not "completely non-radical" however, I would probably dismiss it especially if I noticed that I was in a state of desperation as you say.

Also what I was wondering, and have tried in vain to find some information on, is whether, because the ASC is so late, Jupiter becomes the 'next' L1. I've never seen this in other horaries and it's probably grasping at straws Smile.

As for the 1st house and its ruler, Lilly says:

"the sign ascending shall in party signify his corporature, body or stature: the lord of the ascendant, according to the sign he is in, the Moon and the planet in the Ascendant, equally mixed together, shall show his quality or conditions."

So, to begin with, we have the Lord of the 1st, the Moon and the planets found inside the 1st. That's quite a lot of candidates and, if we continued adding even more planets, we'd easily run out of them; who would, then, represent the Quesited. I'm joking, of course but, generally speaking, i think that L1 and the Moon (along with the planets occupying the 1st) are enough. Obviously, another rulership so close to the Ascendant certainly looks important but, then again, a new rulership so close to the Ascendant is a warning against judgement and so, it is no wonder that Lilly doesn't mention it.

I don't have his book at hand to confirm this but, I believe he mentions interceptions inside the 1st somewhere in it however, I'm pretty sure that the explanations apply to natal chart delineations.

Scorpio ASC 29.27... here we have a late ascendant. Very late. Lilly says that a late ascendant can mean either it's 'too late'

Besides a very late Ascendant, three other relevant planets in this chart are placed near the sign border - mars has just entered into a new rulership whilst the Sun and L1 are about to. Relevant planets changing signs are often suggest a change of some sort. From that perspective, both significators of the male party are potentially going through a certain change; L7 has already crossed the border and it won't be long before Sun does the same thing. Venus, however, although only two steps away from the end of the sign, is apparently reluctant; she has stopped moving and will soon change her direction and start moving backwards which often implies clinging onto the past, re-evaluating past relationships and seeing them in a better light than they really were. Going back to an ex lover is not a bad idea generally speaking however, a retrograde planet often suggests that the person is not entirely in touch with the current moment and, since the future is still unknown, the past looks like a safe harbor. I've noticed more than once that persons represented by a retrograde planet show a certain dose of self-pity as well. And, although essentially strong, the 8th house Moon is most likely to exaggerate that state. In a way, if we assume that the Moon is the organizer of the events then, the 8th is not the place where he wants to set his business.

L1 Mars and L7 Venus are in applying trine, in strong mutual reception, but as we know Venus is slow in motion on this date and about to retrograde back to an eventual square with Mars, still in mutual reception. Venus gets much interference before the aspect perfects (aspects to Saturn and Jupiter, etc) so I'm unsure whether it counts.

Mars will also form an aspect with the Sun before he reaches Venus. Even if we examine the passage of the planets through the signes they're currently occupying as an overview of multiple events that are about to happen in the future, this chart would still have many faults. in addition, it is the passage of the Moon through the current sign that we usually expect to tell us the whole story.
The Venus will remain retrograde for quite some time and, in my opinion, an aspect formed under such circumstances is not the ultimate example of a happy ending. Furthermore, I don't think that this mutual reception is the best one can get. Not just in this chart but, generally, speaking, I actually don't fancy the idea of the main rulers being placed in each other's rulership in love questions. Although it may seem like a strong testimony of the two parties being attached to each other, their placement in each other main dignities actually show them as somewhat weak and unable to express themselves; because Mars in the rulership of Venus and Venus in the rulership of Mars means that we have two detrimental/fallen planets. And, for a good relationship, we need a healthy woman and a healthy man, in charge of their female and male qualities, respectively. I can imagine at least three better placements for the rulers of the 1st aand the 7th in such questions.

Finally, given this Moon/Jupiter lovely conjunction near the point of the exaltation of Jupiter in a chart that doesn't really look great, the idea of casting a 2nd chart looks even better to me.

Cheers,

aglaya

Gunhilde,

'Will Ian ask me out?' is another way to phrase a question

Is he interested in me?
Will we have a meaningful relationship?
Is he serious?

So, I am not expecting 'Skyscript Member', to have waited that long to ask a question. Late ascendant just shows that this or a question bearing on this relationship has perhaps been asked previously.

L7 Venus got retrograde on 22nd of December. It might be exalting Mars being in Capricorn (My take on reception is John Frawley style), but the time you asked the question it was extremely slow and retrograde after few days. Dont count too much on 'Venus'. This time it is pleasurable diversion to whet the appetite.

Sep-Oct 2012 should have been critical from the relationship point of view.

Thanks to both for your replies.

I'm fairly sure the 29-degree ascendant is doing exactly what it's supposed to do, which is say 'too late, baby', ...and that's fine. After nearly three weeks it's fairly clear! :-D

I was mostly intrigued by the Moon/Jupiter conjunction: with 6 arcminutes betwixt the two I can't help but think that it's got to have some influence, despite the late ascendant...but what, exactly?

Horary is not an art which necessarily brings comfort and empty platitudes to the querent; but a Jupiter/Moon conjunction in dignified signs and Jupiter ruling the 4th (and the 2nd, somewhat less relevant to this chart), would suggest that the end result will still bring some benefit to me, perhaps in some manner I have not thought of. A silver lining in the cloud, so to speak.

Saturn L3 in the 12th (doth make much mischief) is trined by this configuration, but again I have no idea what this means, or if it even matters!

Gunhilde :-)

Gunhilde wrote: but a Jupiter/Moon conjunction in dignified signs and Jupiter ruling the 4th (and the 2nd, somewhat less relevant to this chart), would suggest that the end result will still bring some benefit to me, perhaps in some manner I have not thought of. A silver lining in the cloud, so to speak.

This could be true. If not a benefit, then, from a less materialistic perspective; comfort, strength and capability to cope with the dark sides of the 8th house that, so often, overwhelm us when our relationships fall apart. An 8th house Moon casting its rays onto Saturn inside the 12th, regardless of the quality of the aspect, in my opinion, doesn't look like a good starting point.
But, given the circumstances, the Moon (your co-ruler and the story teller), essentially very strong, conjunct the greater benefic near the point of its exaltation in the house of heart-break (among other things) looks like a good protection.

Saturn L3 in the 12th (doth make much mischief) is trined by this configuration, but again I have no idea what this means, or if it even matters!

I think I've mentioned this a few times so far here; I don't think that even a good Moon/Saturn aspect is very welcome in love potential horaries. Others may disagree but, I dislike the Moon/Saturn combination of significators in love questions as the natures of the planets are extremely different and don't mix together well. When they're not the main significators, the Moon still represents the emotional state of the Querent and is her co-significator. In my opinion, any contact between the Moon and Saturn suggests some kind of coldness and rejection, especially the conjunction. What we have in this chart is probably one of the best versions of such a contact since the Moon is strong, protected by a benefic and the aspect with Saturn is good by nature. The houses are somewhat negative but, even so, the Moon remains protected. However, the natures of the two planets are brought together and, in romance questions, the delicate Moon wants a softer touch. Saturn is a stone. So, in a ways, it implied a certain delay, rejection or inactivity.