Did Valens use sideral? 1 by dragonqueen Hi On his Anthologies it seems that Valens used sideral zodiac,although the Ayanamsa was of 8 degreees when it should have been of 13 . Maybe he made a mistake but even Indians do not agree on correct Ayanamsa.Besides on book I he takes into account the fixed stars on the constelations when describing personality traits. Some techniques by Ibn Ezra seems to suggest the same,like when he tells to draw a chart subtracting 8 degrees from every cusp and planet What do you make of that? thanks Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:05 pm
2 by Deb I am getting concerned about the volume of quick posts that are being made lately, where posters don't bother to give proper references, so comments can easily be taken out of context, or members who might want to comment are put to a lot of trouble in trying to clarify what was said and where. This tends to discourage engagement in the discussion, so dragonqueen, can I ask that you give your references for the statements you make below. I'm also concerned about a high volume of posts being made which are little more than a link, or a link with one comment, and inadequate explanation of what that link represents or why it is being recommended. I am wondering whether this should lead to a change of policy, but would certainly like to recommend that members don't create more than 2 or 3 threads a week - otherwise this forum is going to comprise of many questions that fail to generate interesting discussion. Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:35 pm
3 by Paul Hi dragonqueen, this has been discussed several times, in one form or another, so you may find reading some of those discussions enlightening: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4359 http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7341 To some degree part of the problem is in reckoning whether Valens knew of precession, and if so whether he cared, and indeed whether there was a tropical 'kind' of zodiac that didn't have 0 Aries as its beginning. Any of these are I guess possible. Some interesting discussions on that issue can be found here: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6546 (oops just saw Deb's comment about posting with just links, only for me to post with just...more links) Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:39 pm
4 by dragonqueen Ah sorry. Its just that I havent been very busy recently and have plenty of time for this Thanks Paul Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:40 pm
5 by Deb Then hopefully you won't mind taking the time to give us your reference for this remark? Some techniques by Ibn Ezra seems to suggest the same,like when he tells to draw a chart subtracting 8 degrees from every cusp and planet Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 2:54 pm
6 by dragonqueen I didnt read Ibn Ezra Book of nativities but an astrologer mentioned this on his blog. The part on Valens is on first book and 9.To quote Martin Gasten: By most ayan???as in popular use today, the equinox would have been around 1-2? Aries at this time; but Valens seems to have used an old value of 8? (see IX.12, top of p. 162 in Riley's translation). He most likely wasn't aware of precession, which means it should come as no surprise that he relates the signs of the zodiac both to the fixed stars and to the seasons. (Several ancient civilizations used star phenome Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:11 pm
7 by Deb Your post seems to have ended mid-sentence. The links Paul gave hold a lot of discussion on Valens, but I'm not aware of comment you attribute to Ibn Ezra, that we should subtract 8 degrees from the position of every cusp and planet. Can you give us the link to the blog page where this instruction is reported? Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 3:47 pm
8 by dragonqueen Deb wrote:Your post seems to have ended mid-sentence. The links Paul gave hold a lot of discussion on Valens, but I'm not aware of comment you attribute to Ibn Ezra, that we should subtract 8 degrees from the position of every cusp and planet. Can you give us the link to the blog page where this instruction is reported? http://astrosphera.blogspot.pt/search/label/Ibn%20Ezra Here,but it is in Portuguese. I dont know which page it is,but maybe google translator can help.I dont have the book,cant help much here Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:08 pm
9 by Deb Without a reference it's hard to know what to make of this, but I can't find anything comparable in the English translation of Ezra's Book of Nativities and Revolutions translated by Meira Epstein (ARHAT, 2008). Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:39 pm
10 by Paul Presumably the 8 degrees relates to this: pg 255 http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=G_x6 ... 22&f=false End of the book. I shall now reveal a secret to you.[1] (2) Know that the beginning of the year of India is with respect to a point in the zodiac;[2] hence the Ancients said that there are dark degrees, bright degrees, and pits.[3] (3) The reason for the pits is that there are stars with the complexion of Saturn and Mars; so when the Sun or one of the planets faces them, it is like a person who falls into a pit.[4] (4) If you want to know the location of these degrees, since they change their position every year, today you must subtract 8 degrees and 5 minutes from the place of the luminaries as well as of the planets.[5] Last edited by Paul on Thu Dec 12, 2013 9:36 am, edited 1 time in total. Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:55 pm
11 by dragonqueen Logo, fa?a outra figura diminuindo 8 graus a posi??o do Ascendente e n?o te importes se o novo ponto estiver no mesmo signo ou em outro. No grau em que ele cair, aponta-o na segunda figura, pondo ali a Primeira Casa. Do mesmo modo, subtrai 8 graus da c?spide de cada casa, fixando assim as casas da segunda figura. Ainda do mesmo modo, subtrai a mesma quantidade [8 graus] a cada planeta, ? Cabe?a e ? Cauda do Drag?o e ? posi??o de todos os aspectos, estabelecendo o resultado na segunda figura. Estas s?o as duas figuras "make another figure deducting 9 degrees from the AC position and never mind if the new point lies in the same or another sign.Whatever degree it falls in put the first house there. Deduct 8 degrees from each house, fixing the houses of the second figure. Deduct 8 degrees from each planet,the nodes and to every aspects establishing thus the result in the second figure.These are the two figures needed in this case" Quote Wed Dec 11, 2013 4:58 pm