2
Thanks for the link. I would put it in the list of traditional texts available for download if it was freely available, and didn't require a subscription to Scribd.

The link goes to:
Kusyar Ibn Labban's 'Introduction to Astrology', edited and translated by Michio Yano, 1997.

Its an interesting work but I think it is pushing it to describe it as one of the best books on ancient astrology. Very little is known about its 10th-11th century composer, and it's mainly reproducing the content of Ptolemy's Tetrabiblos, but with the addition of techniques and principles that become familiar in Arabic works from the 8th century onwards. I will find it interesting to note how, why and where it differs from Ptolemy's. At the time of publication it probably was one of the best works available in English translation, but it depends what someone is looking for. This shows us ideas that were popular in the Arabic world around the late 10th century, whereas we now have works like Ben Dykes recent translation of the third volume of Hephaistio, or other translations which give us a better idea of the techniques described by ancient sources. I'm sure some of our members will find it very valuable though.

3
I can read it for free :shock:
Rodolfo likes it for being less obscure than many other ancient texts. I personally find it a bit hard to digest.
He isnt mentioned in the catalogue Fihirst because his work flourished after the catalogue came out
He brings the spirit of Astronomy to Astrology,is choesive,sinthetic and each page contains a lot of concepts.
Although based on Ptolemy and Al Bashar he draws attention by the way he approaches diferente topics,like the houses. It also includes Profections and directions.
It even deserved a Chinese translation .
He read it on advice from Steven Birchfield

4
heres an interesting passage

Chapter Thirteen: On the Houses of the Planets 1
'
[1] Cancer and Leo correspond to the Moon and the Sun <respectively> in their
conditions. The two <signs> are as well closest among the signs to <our> zenith.
Cancer was made the house of the Moon and Leo the house of the Sun. The two
houses of Saturn were put in opposition to the two houses of the two luminaries
because they are contradictory to them in nature. Then to Jupiter which is
below it in <its> sphere belong the two houses on both sides of the two houses
of Saturn. Then to Mars which is below it belong the two houses on both sides
of the two houses of Jupiter. Then to Venus belong the two houses which are
next to the two houses of Mars. Then to Mercury belong the two houses which
are next to the two houses of Venus.
[2] Thus the two houses of Jupiter are situated in trine to the two luminaries
and the two houses of Venus are in sextile to the two houses of the two
luminaries. The two houses of Saturn are in opposition to the two houses of the
two luminaries. The two houses of Mars are in quartile to the two houses of the
two luminaries. Because <a planet's own> house is the place of peace, health,
and welfare, people say that the opposite house is the place of detriment.
Chapter Fourteen: On the Exaltation of the Planets2
[ 1] People agree that the exaltation of the Sun is in nineteen degrees of Aries; the
exaltation of the Moon is in three degrees of Taurus; the exaltation of Saturn is
in twenty-one degrees of Libra; the exaltation of Jupiter is in fifteen degrees of
Cancer; the exaltation of Mars in twenty-eight degrees of Capricorn; the exaltation
of Venus is in twenty-seven degrees of Pisces; the exaltation of Mercury is
in fifteen degrees of Virgo; the exaltation of the Head <of> is in three
degrees of Gemini; the exaltation of the Tail <of> is in two3 degrees of
Sagittarius.
[2] The whole sign is the exaltation of the planet, but its power is in it
<only> as long as <it> within the number of degrees that make up its 'body'. 4
The exaltation is the place of greatness. They say that the opposite place is
dejection and weakness. 5
1 Cf. Tetrabi blos I.17.
2Cf TetrabibJos I 19 This chapter can be summarized in the form of a table:
Sun Moon Saturn Jupiter Mars Venus Mercury Head Tail
Exalt. 19? 30 21? 15? 28? 27? 15? 30 20
Deject. 19? 30 21? 15? 28? 27? 15? 30 20
3 Accordmg to BFJ , Sg1ttanus 3 0, wh1ch 1s standard.
4For 'body' see 1.18.1. The Chinese translation gives detailed examples.
5F's addition :

the Positions of the Planets in them1
[1] The ascendant indicates the power by which one brings forth, completes, and
perfects an intended object and an undertaken matter. It is said to be the place
of life and soul.
[2] The second place indicates <the native's> growth, his power, his expansion
of things which are in conformity with him. It is said to be the place of
property, living, support, and the reception of conditions and things.
[3] The third place indicates things which are fitting, suitable, and helpful
to him. It is said to be the place of brothers, sisters, relatives, sons in law, short
trips, and movements from one place to another.
[4] The fourth place indicates the origin from which this beginning is brought
forth. It is said to be the place of fathers, grandfathers, chiefs of the members of
the house, kings, estates, and the end of things.
[5] The fifth place indicates independence of status. It is said to be the place
of children, messengers, news, gifts, crops of landed estates, landed property, food,
and drink.
[6] The sixth place indicates his damages, illnesses, and obstacles which
attack him. It is said to be the place of damages, illnesses, slaves, and female
slaves.
[7] The seventh place indicates what opposes him in power and what associates
with him and antagonizes him. It is said to be the place of opponents,
wives, husbands, and partners.
[8] The eighth place indicates his destruction and his failure. It is said to be
the place of fear, death, inheritance, the property of wives, affliction, and sadness.
1 Ptolemy pays little attention to the twelve places beginning with the ascendant. For the
topic of this chapter, see Abu Ma<Sar's Abbreviation 1.106-120, and Al-Birfini's Tafh.fm, section
462.
--9] The ninth place indicates change in his conditions and exchange of places.
It is said to be the place of travelling, religion, prophecy, opinion, and judgment.
[10] The tenth place indicates his victory and his power. It is said to be the
place of authority, activities, and mothers.
[11] The eleventh place indicates his friendship, his sociability, and his willingness.
It is said to be the place of hope, happiness, friends, and neighbors.
[12] The twelfth place indicates his inconsistencies and what contradicts
him and what harms him. It is said to be the place of enemies, opponents,
misfortunes, griefs, imprisonment, captivity, meanness, and riding animals.
[13] We have described the powers of these places in the nineteenth chapter.
If the place is the fourth it is the place of fathers, <if> seventh the place of
diligence, <if> sixth the place of sadness, and so on by analogy to this.
[14] As for the position of the planets in these places, people agree that if
<the> between a planet and the degrees of the place in th(( direction
<of> is more than five degrees it is in the twelfth sign from this place, and
if it is less than five degrees it is in this place. Proof is needed for this opinion,
otherwise it is far from being deducible. I have no reason to accept it without testing

5
I don't know who uploaded this book to Scribd, but given that it is from 1997, it is fully copyright-protected, and my strong suspicion is that this upload is in direct breach of copyright. It is clearly a cheap monochrome facsimile of the printed pages, not an officially provided copy of the book offered by the publisher.

I note that the same individual has uploaded a scan of my good friend Martin Gansten's paper on Worsdale and Oxley, as presented to the 2010 Sophia Centre conference in Bath.

That Scribd is actually charging for access to these illegally uploaded texts only underlines my existing view that the site is run by unscrupulous Internet cowboys who are making big bucks by allowing members of the public to illegally upload copyright-protected texts.

The procedure for copyright complaints at Scribd makes it as difficult as possible to get material taken down. You have to use their official form and you have to be the copyright holder. Third party reports of violations are entirely ignored even when the evidence that they are violations is clear.

My advice: do authors and publishers a favour, and shun Scribd until they get their act in order.

PS: It is my observation that by calling their site 'the world's digital library', Scribd are attempting to give their law-breaking activity a false sense of legitimacy by appealing to the public's sense of a common good cause. Do not be taken in!

6
Thanks for the notification Phillip. I hadn't considered a copyright violation at the time that link was posted, but subsequently became aware that other links were going to copyrighted texts, and made similar points about Scribd that you have made here. I personally shun Scribd and have asked for no other links to be made to texts on their site. I completely agree with your comments - thanks for driving the point home.

Deb

7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scribd

from the bottom of the link. "Following a decision of the Istanbul 12th Criminal Court of Peace, dated 8 March 2013, access to Scribd is blocked for Internet users in Turkey."

it's a bullshit site that does the same with music composition data - takes copyrighted material and posts it on the net.. maybe someone will sue there ass off..

8
Deb, glad you agree.

James, good for Turkey for taking a stand!

After looking at the Wikipedia article, I note especially the following recent development:

"In October 2013, Scribd officially launched the first global subscription service for digital books, often called the "Neflix for ebooks",[9] giving readers unlimited access to Scrib'd library."

This is where Scribd in my view has clearly crossed the line into breaking the law. Previously they had hid behind the US law that indemnifies hosting sites against claims of culpability for copyrighted material posted by users using them. Thus, according to this law, they could get away with letting users post copyrighted material on their site without being criminally responsible. However, even then, they still had a duty to remove all infringing material drawn to their attention, and by refusing to co-operate with claims that either (a) are communicated to them by letter or email rather than on a specific complaints form of their choosing, or (b) are made by third party good citizens, they failed in that duty and therefore were still arguably breaking the law. Furthermore, by accepting advertising revenue and not making a conscientious effort to prevent copyrighted material from being uploaded in the first place, they were still demonstrably profiting from a policy of negligently allowing people to upload copyrighted material.

But the recent development in October 2013 renders them all the more obviously culpable, since they are now charging subscription fees for access to all uploads including user ones that may be of copyright-infringing material. I earnestly share James's wish that they are taken to court and sued, preferably by a class action suit of interested copyright holders.

The fact that certain publishers have done deals with them to legitimately allow their contents to be displayed on the site takes nothing away from the fact that they are simultaneously allowing infringing material to appear and stay on their site and profiting from this policy.

Also from the Wikipedia article:

"In September 2009, American author Elaine Scott alleged that Scribd "shamelessly profits from the stolen copyrighted works of innumerable authors."[34]"

Elaine Scott is absolutely right! And things have only got worse since October 2013.

Make no mistake: Scribd is profiting illegitimately at the expense of legitimate copyright-holders such as authors and publishers, even while it is doing some other legitimate business on the side with publishers that might be seen as giving it a veneer of respectability; but beneath that veneer is the rotten, infested wood of piracy-driven profiteering.

I've seen other astrological texts shamelessly uploaded by users of Scribd before. I reported an infringing upload of Jeanne Long's financial text 'The Universal Clock' earlier this year, but was denied action thanks to not being the copyright holder myself. Hence my learned hardline attitude of having no faith in Scribd and its business ethics.
Last edited by Philip Graves on Sat Dec 14, 2013 1:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

9
This is what I wrote in a previous post, in response to the suggestion that their downloads are free:
Nothing on that site is actually free - to download we either have to pay them subscription money or upload something they can use to tempt others to subscribe. Many of the texts are breaking copyright, being uploaded by people who have nothing original of their own to upload. There is no checking process for uploads - authors have to see that they are victims of copyright theft, then go through a process of complaint to get their book removed from the links as and when problems are discovered. It's a tiresome process which saps energy, time and motivation.
It's good that Wikipedia is reporting some of the problem, but their figures must be hugely underestimated. Even with no personal interest in the site myself I'm aware that loads of astrological texts have been ripped off there, including my own. One thing that seems clear: they take no action against someone who has uploaded a copyrighted text; they simply go through a process (which is very simple for them and very tiresome for the complainer) and then take the text down. So yes, I think they are corrupt and criminally negligent for profiting on a practice that they know encourages uploads of supposedly protected material. I hope they get their come uppance soon.