law of attraction and astrology

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in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?

Re: law of attraction and astrology

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hi astronovice,

you ask a lot of questions in a short post!

i suppose i am guilty of being so caught up in the language of astrology, getting outside of it to think what someone else might think about all this is difficult to do. do i believe venus connections between charts has relevance or helps to validate the law of attraction astrologically? do i believe that magic happens and astrology can still be valid? yes to both these questions personally.

but i really want to answer in the affirmative on one of your later questions -"Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset?"

to me this goes without saying, but i am happy to re-emphasize it in spite of or becuase of my lifelong involvement in astrology. i think this is really helpful while i might not be able to prove any of it, i do believe that our beliefs have a huge roll in shaping our experience.

thanks for asking.
AstroNovice wrote:in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?

Re: law of attraction and astrology

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james_m wrote:hi astronovice,

you ask a lot of questions in a short post!

i suppose i am guilty of being so caught up in the language of astrology, getting outside of it to think what someone else might think about all this is difficult to do. do i believe venus connections between charts has relevance or helps to validate the law of attraction astrologically? do i believe that magic happens and astrology can still be valid? yes to both these questions personally.

but i really want to answer in the affirmative on one of your later questions -"Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset?"

to me this goes without saying, but i am happy to re-emphasize it in spite of or becuase of my lifelong involvement in astrology. i think this is really helpful while i might not be able to prove any of it, i do believe that our beliefs have a huge roll in shaping our experience.

thanks for asking.
yeah, right now I am kind of feeling stuck, because I know logically that astrological influences are quite powerful, so I don't want to waste my time trying to alter my fate if its actually impossible to do; on the other hand though I sometimes feel like I am too much "go with the flow" and I wonder if maybe I am missing out on lifes experiences by being too passive. By any chance, do you know of any quotes from traditional astrologers that address this very matter? Also do you have any anecdotes of times where it appeared that positive thinking/attitude saved the day? That would help me greatly if you have any stories like that to share. Thanks

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astronovice,

i don't have any quotes from traditional astrology to offer. most of what i read on trad astro is all nuts and bolts minus any philosophy. i have some personal experiences, but nothing that would pass a scientific examination. some of my most interesting moments of enlightenment and liberation have coincided with jupiter transits. in the hierarchy of traditional astrology the lowly transit data is given short shrift, but it has been my experience that transit data off of the outer planets to personal points/planets in a chart are central to a persons experience.

based on the thoughtful posts you make on this website i would suggest you don't make traditional astrology a prison cell that you have to find a way to escape from. think of astrology as just one of many windows to gain some perspective on your life, as opposed to the only one or one that becomes restrictive.

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astronovice, this will sound pretty "modern"-- except that I recently saw a video where Robert Hand said much the same thing in his conclusions.....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9yWrU4zn6ic

Your chart will "out" in some fashion. You can call this expression deterministic or fatalistic if you like. However, each planetary placement nevertheless has a range of potential manifestations, each consistent with that placement. So here is where your choice, or ability to attract what you want, comes in.

As you look at your various chart placements, and any transits or progressions that may be currently hitting you with a big stick; think through the different possible meanings of each planet, sign, house, and aspect. What would be some empowering meanings of these placements?

No, you can't "resist" your chart. I don't know why you would even want to resist your chart. Ideally it fits your life experience-- the outrageously good parts about you as well as the less-happy parts. But what you can do is consider your best meanings of your chart placements, and then consciously work to attract those into your life.

Here is where being positive about yourself, horoscope horrors and all, can attract what you want into your life.

Just for example, a disempowering interpretation of the sign of Leo is that it is too proud, arrogant, and bossy. An empowering interpretation is that the sign is generous and self-expressive.

I find this works strategy best with Saturn. You can see him as limitation, disappointment, and frustration. Or as your great teacher for deferred gratification, patience, hard work, and a big reality-check. If you learn Saturn's lessons, there is no magic about it-- save money instead of spending it, and you will have money in the bank.

This shift in your approach may take some doing. You may have to actively put yourself into new situations. But I think the universe notices if you take small steps to manifest your positive potential; and in that way, you may find your life re-aligning.

I'm not making this up. My horoscope looks fairly awful, but as I began to work with some of my troubled aspects, rather than simply feeling myself to be blind-sided by them, the effects actually got a lot better.

You either: (A) manifest the positive possibilities for your chart, (B) the negative options, or else (C) you disown the parts of your chart/self that you dislike. Then you tend to attract people/events who seemingly represent the negative qualities of the disowned planets.

I recommend A.

Good luck with this!

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You might find this strange, given our past discussions, but I am actually in agreement with both Waybread and James here, at least in terms the pragmatic aspects of what they are saying. I come at it from a different analysis, but ultimately, from a practical standpoint, the end result is that I would give similar practical advice.

Thank you so much for the Robert Hand lecture. It was really very interesting. Actually, Robert Hand explains a lot of the things that I was trying to say in previous threads. I would probably say that my philosophy is closest to the Neo-Platoism he described, although I would say that Plato was expounding upon and making Traditional (capital T) (substitute Ancient, if that is more comfortable) philosophy explicit in a world where it was starting to get lost. There are some minor points that I would disagree with in what he said, but for the most part, Robert Hand's explanation was a VERY good!

That all being said, I do not believe in the Law of Attraction as some sort of "force in the universe." In the Ancient Model of the Cosmos, the higher spheres are NOT really the orbits of the planets, but outside the realm of the physical world. All of the planets, and everything in the physical universe that one can measure or extrapolate from sense data are in the sublunary sphere. (This is why I believe that Modern Science is limited, by the way).

In Ancient thought, we (or our souls, as you will) do not just exist on the sublunary sphere. They exist in all of the spheres simultaneously. This is getting rather deep into this understanding of the cosmos; however, the easiest spheres to understand are the two that are closest to the sublunary sphere, the Lunary Sphere and the Sphere of Mercury. The Lunary Sphere is the sphere of our dreams and imagination, and the Sphere of Mercury, the sphere of thought. When we think and imagine things, we are operating in these Spheres. In the axiom, "as above, so below," the activity on these Spheres will influence our physical manifestation on the sublunary sphere, or in our physical life.

In the Age of Iron, we are quite consolidated in physical manifestation, so it is harder to influence the physical realms by non-physical means. In earlier Ages, what we would consider "magic" probably worked, whereas it really does not in this Age, particularly not this late into the Age. I suppose if one was at a high state of Enlightenment, it might, but I doubt any of us here are at that state. I sure am not.

In terms of our charts, I think that the chart gives us a range. Our Nativity Charts show our place in the Harmony of the Spheres. There is a Japanese word "wa" that means harmony, but in a deeper sense than just music. It is the harmony of the cosmos and the harmony of social relationships and life in general. Our chart shows our natural "wa."

I believe that humans are Axial Beings, which means that we can rise above or fall below our wa. Animals generally can not. There are some exceptions. For example, a dog can save the life of her owner and rise above her wa, or the dog can go rogue, and fall below her wa. This is quite rare though. Mostly, though, a dog will just be a dog.

People are different. They can express their charts at a very high level, or rise above their wa, or they can express their charts at a very low level, and fall below their wa. Most people tend to express their charts in keeping with their wa, however.

This is why one can make predictions with reasonable accuracy, I believe. Most people do what comes naturally to them, particularly in the late Age of Iron. The chart can show one's full range however, with ways to rise above and temptations to fall below what is natural.

As you can see, I am approaching these questions from a different angle; however, my conclusion is that no, one is not limited by one's chart, but it can provide useful information.

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thanks guys for the excellent replies

-Waybread

I am definitely going to research this more, what you said is fascinating and I can't wait to try it. One question, would happen to know how on earth I would channel a square aspect? I have a strong saturn square mercury aspect that I feel is the source of most of my woes.

-Myriam

I think the wa concept sounds interesting as well, i'm gonna try to play around with that concept in my mind a little bit.

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According to some modern astrologers, Harding and Harvey, Working with Astrology, the 2-series in general, notably squares indicate an intense urge to manifest something.

A negative expression of Mercury square Saturn might be pessimistic (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.) Or depressed thinking.

But we do find that the squares are what get people of the couch (or chesterfield, as we say in Canada.) Because they demand some kind of manifestation. Often times people's successful careers reflect their natal squares, because the squares keep pushing the person into greater accomplishments. Squares may not be comfortable, but you can get a lot done with them.

So try out: structured, self-disciplined (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.) Mercury rules the hands, so try to perfect some type of handicraft even if you think you're not "handy." Look at the signs, houses, cusp rulers, and any special "helpers" Saturn and Mercury might receive in your chart. For example, maybe you've got a nice trine to one of them or some mutual reception.

This sounds a whole lot more sensible to me than looking for some sort of resistence or magical practice. In fact, a nice combo for Saturn-Mercury would be sensible (Saturn) thinking (Mercury.)

Re: law of attraction and astrology

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AstroNovice wrote:in your alls opinion, is the LOA valid in light of astrology being real? Or not even just LOA for that matter, but also things like magic as well? I have been thinking a lot about this issue, trying to determine if astrological energy is fated, or if it can be resisted with the proper tools. (much in the same way that a natural force like gravity can be "defied" if you use a rocket.) Is it possible to maximize the quality of our lives by cultivating a positive outlook on life and having proper emotional/internal mindset? Or is that basically just a waste of time? What do you all think?
You are probably referring to LOA teachings since the principle that is called LOA ('like attracts like' or 'that which is like unto itself is drawn') is at the very basis of astrology. So, the LOA itself and astrology are not at odds. It is certain LOA teachings that are (seemingly?) at odds with astrology.

What I see the genuine LOA teachings suggest is that there are no good or bad charts, that there are no lessons to learn and no mess from past lives to clean up. There is, however, a general sense of direction, certain mental dispositions and preferences, that everyone brings into this life and which direct his/her decisions. But those are very broad in nature. It's more like vacationing, like you decide to go on a trip to Europe and what you are going to do there specifically, for how long you go and with whom you are going to have fun is pretty much open and you will fill in the blanks as you go along. So in that sense, if you want to have a good time, two things would be essential: 1) that you know who you are 2) that you stay true to who you are. And as long as you are in alignment with yourself, you will have a good time.

The problem for most people will probably be that they don't know who they are anymore as a result of socialization. And that's where astrology gets interesting.

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waybread wrote:I'm not making this up. My horoscope looks fairly awful, but as I began to work with some of my troubled aspects, rather than simply feeling myself to be blind-sided by them, the effects actually got a lot better.

You either: (A) manifest the positive possibilities for your chart, (B) the negative options, or else (C) you disown the parts of your chart/self that you dislike. Then you tend to attract people/events who seemingly represent the negative qualities of the disowned planets.

I recommend A.!
I also recommend A. And the way I see it, if you stay true to yourself, that's exactly what's naturally going to happen.