16
Gabkins stated:
Thanks Clinton! Well, the first conclusion you make is very nearly spot on. I have a birthmark on my LEFT arm, it is about an inch BELOW my elbow instead of above it (meaning, closer to my hand than to my shoulder). This birthmark is make 1.5 inches long and half inch wide.
Glad you caught that I, and Not a dear mentor to many of us Lilly was Not in error, I was for when it comes to the degrees they run downwards, not up as I did this one backwards:

Note what Lilly says:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/texts.html

Lilly, William Christian Astrology, vol. I & II 1647Mithras93

http://mithras93.tripod.com/books/books.html

C:\Documents and Settings\all\Local Settings\Temporary Internet Files\Content.IE5\3Z9T2EWE\CA-IIFinal[1].zip

Page 148, of CAII shows how to find the appearance oriented data:

If few degrees of a Signe doe ascend, or if the Lord of the Signe be in a few degrees, the Mole, Mark or Scarre is in the upper part of the member; if the middle of the Signe ascend, or the Lord thereof in the middle, or neer the middle of the Signe, the Mole or Mark is so in the member, viz. in the middle: If the latter degrees ascend, or the Moon, or Lord of the 1st or 6th house be neer the last degrees of the Sign, the Mole Mark or Scarre is neere the lower part of the member.

So I did it backwards in regard to the blemish on the back of the arm, as the sign runs downward!

Gabkins:
I have a small mole a couple inches below my navel, so I guess that could be along the lines of the other mark you mention in that area, but it's not very notable. More like a large freckle, which I have in various parts of my body.

Lilly:
Then observe the Signe descending on the cusp of the 6th house, and what part of man?s body it personates, for in that member shall you find another; so shall you discover another in that member which is signified by the Signe wherein the Lord of the 6th is.
Clinton:
The horary has 22vir28 on the 6H, again with Mercury 17gem41 cjt both venus and Jupiter, all three in masculine signs yet virgo is a feminie sign, so is there a mole or mark on the querant's area over the intestines, lower than the naval? Since the ruling planets are under the horizon I'm thinking it can't be seen like on the inside.
That fits!

Gabkins:
My largest "mark" or scar is on my left leg, from a car accident I was in when I was 11. It is VERY noticeable (the size of the palm of my hand, at least). You could see if the chart might indicate this in some way.
This may fit with Lilly because I wondered about that Mercury cjt Jupiter, the largest planet in the solar system, Jupiter naturally ruling the thigh, but Jupiter is in Gemini(a masculine positive sign)!

I'm thinking since Saturn(9th lord) has something to do with that as it rules the knee, in sco( left as it's feminine and negative), below the horizon, in back Not in front, and Saturn's depositor is Mars(cuts and scars)!

Lilly:

Then observe the Signe descending on the cusp of the 6th house, and what part of man?s body it personates, for in that member shall you find another; so shall you discover another in that member which is signified by the Signe wherein the Lord of the 6th is.

I don't see this one then, I just Can Not connect that Mercury cjt Venus cjt Jupiter with the upper legs, even though Jupiter naturaly rules the legs.

Perhaps since Saturn(depositor is mars) rules the 9th(legs=upper leg, thigh) in sco(feminine sign, left side). under the horizon, part not in front but behind, this may be and indicator?

But I wondered about the prior mentioned Jupiter aspect.

But Lilly emphasized the house correspondence that may give that scar behind the leg in:
Usually an Infortune in the Ascendant blemishes the Face with some Mole or Scarre according to his nature, for the 1st house signifies the Face, the 2nd the Neck, the 3rd the Arms and Shoulders, the 4th the Breast and Paps, the 5th the Heart, &c.. and so every house and Signe in order, according to succession; for what Signe soever is in the Ascendant, yet in every Question the 1st house represents the Face: Many times if the Moon be in Conjunction or Opposition of the Sun, the Querent hath some blemish or the like near one of his Eyes; and this is ever true, if the Opposition or Conjunction be in Angles, and either of them have any ill aspect to Mars.
I was wondering since the Moon is slightly beyond the 5 degrees Lilly allowed in separating cjt to N. Node if that might rule out the obvious scar from Moon opp mars as the North Node is so beneficial; maybe that is why there is no scar in front by the genitals?

Imagine a client of Lillys who asked him several queries, and from each one Lilly would locate different blemishes throughout the body in the course of Lilly's servitude to the horary layman!

Nothing on back of Neck, small, upper? You can't see it unless you have eyes transplanted, maybe have someone check it out? ROTFL


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

17
Do you think also that the planets are too debilitated to receive? I know some people think that a debilitated planet is not able to receive another planet, so there would not be a mutual reception really. Obviously Moon and Mars are interested in each other, but don't really have the ability to "receive" the other
I don't think the essential debility of planets prevents them from being able to receive each other, it simply tells something important about their esse i. e. their state of being.
I may be missing something important, but I still haven't come across any such claim in the ancient texts.
To the contrary.

Sahl bin Bishr addresses such scenario:

And if some significator were in its own descension [the Moon in your example] and were joined to a planet who did not have a power (namely the domicile or exaltation) in the place of that significator, he will view him as nothing, as if a strange vestment was given to some querent.

Masha'allah and Bonatti give examples of debilitated planets receiving each other and perfecting matters.

Based on this, I'm prone to put the greater part of the blame for the disaster on the entirely ex conditione , retrograde Saturn in the 7th, the south node in the 1st and also on the USB significator Mars which is unable to hold onto what the Moon committed him.

EDIT

...and don't forget the fixed stars :shock:

A very unfortunate Hamal (Mars/Saturn) is sitting, exact to the minute, on the ASC degree.
Another one, pretty equally as bad is found just 9' away from the position of the Moon - Unukalhai (Saturn/Mars).
Both of these stars represent very powerful secret hinderers!

...just why have I overlooked them? :???:


Regards,
Goran
http://7heavenastrology.wordpress.com
http://klasicnaastrologija.wordpress.com

19
Gabkins stated:
Also I did not know that King David believed horary was an artform divinely given to us. That's interesting to know. Thank you!
Sorry I'm so late on answering this Gabkins, but in some respects it's best I was late for it may be that David definitely beleived in astrology by the following link, but I'm doubtful now if horary was around in King David or Solomon his son's time, as noted in the foillowing:

http://kingsenglish.info/2012/04/21/the ... -of-god-2/

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/sh ... hp?t=68558

In respect for our forum members who may be offended by Biblical verses I have honoured them by Not quoting scripture but the link to King David quote that is obviously astrological inspired. Just as a dear fellow Christian with tau asc, pisces apollo, and Chronus ruled 9th(so traditional and status quo) forbids me to bring up the Queran/Koran in his presence even if many of it's scriptures defend the Hebrew documents of the O.T. and possibly endorce astrology as well. He does however see that astrology may have Biblical connections but well he is torro fixed and hard to make an astro convert!

It is well to note that many of us honour Lilly's horary skill whom at one time wished to be in the clergy and I hope all realize studying CA how devout Lilly was as in the following:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/lilly.html

As I have Not got permission from the author David Plant, I ask you to note in the second paragraph it states '...it was Lilly's intention to further his higher education and go into the Church..'; which I understand meant he originally sought to be in the clergy or a priest.

And in Lilly's "To the Student of Astrology" one can hear the devoted ninth house of lilly in CA as he says:

"....Stand fast oh, man ! to thy God: then consider thy own nobleness; how all created things, both present and to come, were for thy sake created; nay, for thy sake God became man: thou art that creature, who, being conversant with Christ, livest and reignest above the heavens, and sits above all power and authority. How many pre-eminences, privileges, advantages, hath God bestowed on thee? thou rangest above the heavens by contemplation, conceivest the motion and magnitude of the stars: thou talkest with angels, yea, with God himself: ..."

But I question Lilly's understanding of scripture due to the fact of his apparent confusion about his ninth house matters of dreams being relavant as the KJV may not have been widely read and distributed in 1647 upon his first publication of CA.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_James_Version
Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

http://www.newsreview.com/reno/star-rea ... ?oid=22904

20
Hi, everyone, I haven't stopped by in a while, but it's always nice to see you all here! :'

I'm really sorry I missed this thread, I would have loved to throw in my two cents especially since charts the Moon in the 7th in a romance Horary where the male party gets the 7th are something that I usually find very interesting. As a matter of fact, just recently, I decided to find all such charts from my own "stash" and compare them - the Moon inside the 7th held the same promise in each and every one - a pregnant woman, known or unknown to the Querent. Of course, this only applied to the charts where the Moon wasn't the main significator of either of the parties (The L1 Moon placed inside the 7th is usually a simply a sign of the Querent's attachment to the Quesited).
The guy ended up getting a girlfriend that summer (while school was out and we weren't working together or seeing each other) and I believe got her pregnant. I had a dream during the summer in which he came to me and said, "I'm sorry, but I got another woman pregnant."
The presence of another female planet inside the house of the Quesited is a form of connection between the parties especially if the planet is received by L7. The Moon is "woman", "mother", "wife", "steady partner" and, if the Lord of the 7th welcomes Her in his own house, it means that he is willing to embrace all these qualities. In other words - he wants to make her a self-accomplished woman. In this particular case, the Moon is applying into an opposition with Mars - She is received by Him (rulership) and,with this tiny 2?orb and the planets being placed in angular houses, it was to be expected that the activity would take place in the nearest future.

What I find very intriguing about this chart 'tho, is the position of L1 and its conjunction with her dispositor - Mercury! How did that play out?

Cheers,

aglaya

21
Aglaya, thanks for your response! I still don't know for certain that she was (or is) pregnant for sure, but that is interesting east you write:
the Moon inside the 7th held the same promise in each and every one - a pregnant woman, known or unknown to the Querent. Of course, this only applied to the charts where the Moon wasn't the main significator of either of the parties
As for your question about mercury, I had applied for a full time job at the school where I had met this guy, so I thought originally that mercury, as ruler of second and sixth houses was showing the job coming to me.
This did not happen. I did have a crush on a friend at the time, and my feelings for him increased later, but he def didn't pursue me and nothing came of that at all. So I'm not sure who or what mercury is here. [/quote]
Gabby

22
I did get a teaching job elsewhere a little less than a year later, and it came to me quickly and easily once I applied to it,. Sincemercury is less than one degree from Venus, maybe this is what mercury signifies?

I don't know why this horary chart would feel the need to show me getting an unrelated job, but I find horary doing that for me pretty often.

I ended up moving back to where my family lives, in a different state, and I wouldn't have done that if I'd gotten into a relationship with this guy. Also wouldn't have gotten this teaching job. So it's sort of related.
Gabby

23
gabkins wrote:Aglaya, thanks for your response! I still don't know for certain that she was (or is) pregnant for sure, but that is interesting east you write:
the Moon inside the 7th held the same promise in each and every one - a pregnant woman, known or unknown to the Querent. Of course, this only applied to the charts where the Moon wasn't the main significator of either of the parties
Even if she weren't, he did make her "a bride" which, again, is ruled by the Moon.

I don't know why this horary chart would feel the need to show me getting an unrelated job, but I find horary doing that for me pretty often.
Maybe not but, the truth is, although very static at first sight, this chart is actually amazingly descriptive; just look at your ruler- earning money (2nd) as a teacher (Jupiter-teachers, conjunct Mercury- studying/students inside Gemini- studying again).

The opposition on the 1st/7th axis doesn't really look like the ultimate example of a stable relationship but, personally, if I were to deliver the answer to a client and saw something like this, I would have probably not even mention the potential quality of that relationship.

24
Just saw this chart and decided to answer here before reading any of the posts. So I promise, I did not read any of the discussion in here - but will do after I give the answer.

I see a NO answer.
Having Saturn in the 7th is a NO.
There is desire, L7 is in your house and the Moon is in his house.
I think this indicates your desire to be with him.

But Venus, you, is not aspecting him, Mars. Venus is not aspecting the Moon either. The Moon is coming into a perfect opposition to Mars within 3 units of time, I would guess within 3 weeks/months there would be a separation of this issue, and both parties move on with their lives.