W.A.T.F.P.F.M.R.W.U. & W.W.H.A.C?

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"What are the future possibilities for my current relationship with U. and will we have a child?

Question asked 15 December 2004, 1.25PM, Brussels, Belgium

Ascendant 13 degrees Aries (my sun sign)

First part of the question:

My significator Moon at 13 Aquarius makes a perfect trine with his significator Jupiter at 15 Libra in the 7th. Seems very promising. I also like that he comes out as jupiter.

BUT

His co-significator Venus (ruler of 7), at 28 Scorpio in the 8th, moves away from a conjunction with my co-significator Mars at 23 Scorpio.

What happened in the 1,5 month that have passed since I asked the question, is that (as venus entered Sag) he went abroad to his job's HQ, then visited his family abroad, then for 3 weeks visited all tsunami countries (for his job), and then had to go to his job's HQ again.

As a result, I've seen him only once after I asked the question. WOuldn't be that big of a deal, but he hardly ever calls me or writes me. He is a real workaholic and it could be he is too busy now, but at this point I can no longer believe in our relationship because i don't feel he cares.

The one time I saw him, he had just returned from Somalia and Indonesia, was sick and exhausted, and it clearly was not the right timing to discuss our relationship. He had to leave again immediately afterwards and said he would call me when back. That was 10 days ago. Haven't heard from him since. :?

I am wondering now whether he is just too busy with work and going through a crisis (he was very cynical and exhausted after 3 weeks in the tsunami countries, woke up at night still smelling the dead bodies :( ), and that eventually the Jupiter trine Moon will win, or whether that venus leaving mars, and both in Scoprio in the 8th, is the final result?

Any insights would be very welcome.


Second part of the question:

Saturn in the fifth house makes a trine with my co-significator Mars, but I take it that the involvement of Saturn and the placement of mars in the 8th are bad signs. :( I actually am not too keen on having kids, not that I exclude it but would prefer to adopt. With Moon in Aquarius in 11 trining Jup. the latter option seems a better plan.

Any comments and insights and remarks on things I overlooked are very welcome. Thank you in advance.

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haku wrote:we broke up. i don't think this is recoverable. funny with that jup in 7 trine moon.
Aw, sorry to hear that Haku. Hope you are ok. Perhaps the Jupiter Moon trine is saying that it will be for the best in the long run.

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Hi Haku,

I think where you?ve gone wrong here is in making the primary significators ?co-significators? (and you seem to have used co-significators as primary significators).

With Aries on the Ascendant your main significator is Mars on the 8th house cusp ? already an indication that you need to ?let go?. The man in question is signified by Venus, ruler of the 7th. Venus is separating away from Mars showing the best of his interest lies in the past. Jupiter?s influence upon him is important because it is sitting on the 7th house cusp and the Moon (the general significator of action) is applying to Jupiter by trine. But who or what is Jupiter? Being near to his house cusp it may reflect his physical description but we also need to consider the houses it rules to locate its representation ? the only house with a Jupiter-ruled sign on the cusp is the 9th house, showing the influence of overseas travel upon this man. The Moon rules his 10th house (turned 4th) so it looks like the increase of his professional concerns overwhelm any commitment he can make to you.

The next application of Mars (your significator) is the trine to Saturn on the 5th house cusp. Saturn on the 5th house cusp demonstrates disappointment in pregnancy matters; it?s a sign of infertility, and Venus has most recently separated from Saturn showing a blighted prospect of having children with this man. The 5th house is ruled by the Moon and although that is applying to the trine of Jupiter which, on the surface of things at least, looks good, you have to balance that against the fact that the Moon is conjunct Neptune which is a weakening influence in fertility matters, applying to the square of your own significator, Mars, and the 5th house is tenanted by Saturn.

Ultimately since the main significators are separating on the 8th house cusp, and there?s no other beneficial contact to reconnect them, (we have the Moon applying by square and an application to Saturn ? both suggesting strain and disappointment) the chart doesn?t look promising at all. Hope this helps you see it in a better context.

Deb

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Thank you so much Deb. I have always thought that the moon and planets in the houses were more important significators than the rulers of the houses... Apparently not, then.

I have also alwyas thought this for natal charts and solar and lunar returns. Is that not true then either?

(btw, I am really ok with the situation. The relationship was very enriching, but I have not shed a tear about its ending)

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I looked at this chart and I agree with the basics of what Deb said. The significators are separating, and his significator, Venus is in its detriment. All this shows that this is not meant to be.

But I do have a question about how to interpret the fact that his significator is in a sign that is ruled by her significator, Mars. My thinking has been perhaps too simplistic on this, but I had thought that such a situation would describe a guy who was very emotionally attached to her, but to his detriment. While just based on reception alone, it would seem that she is not as attracted to him, because Mars in only in the face of Venus. I must be wrong in using this kind of simplistic rule that says that whatever planet rules the sign, exaltation, triplicity, etc. is something that the person is ruled by or exalts, or likes. I don?t know what the guy?s feelings are here, but I?d guess that she is, or was more attracted to him that is shown based on reception alone. How do we handle receptions in charts? How important would they be in this chart?

On second thought, maybe I?m wrong about Haku?s interest in the guy being so low, as is shown by Mars being in the face of Venus. She did say that she didn?t shed a tear about it ending, so perhaps my reading isn?t as far off as I thought.

Another question is about how to figure out the role of Jupiter here. Why use the radical 9th to show travel and the turned 10th house? Wouldn?t you use either all radical or all turned houses? I am not disagreeing here; I just would like to understand the process more.

And Haku, can I ask two questions? First, where exactly are you located? I used Brussels, but I came out with a rising sign of 11 degrees not 13. So I assume that you?re in a suburb that is several miles from the center of town. Could you give the exact coordinates?

And secondly, if it?s not too personal, could you give some details as to the cause of the breakup? Did it have anything to do with his job or travel? I don?t want to pry but this helps us all learn to read a chart better.
Mark F

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Hi Mark,

I am located right in the centre of Brussels. But you are right - I accidentily left the name of my parents' town, 100 km north-east of BXL, when i drew the chart.

I can tell you more of the story. Would be interesting to understand it better with the horary. I would really love to understand him better, and to understand better what happened.

When I said "I did not shed a tear" it is not that I did not want this to last, I wanted it to last. I highly appreciated him and cared about our relation. But I have learnt from the past that when a relationship is over there usually is a reason for it, that one has given all there was to give, learnt and all there was to learn, and that it is time to move on. So it's a philosophical attitude that I have trained myself to have.

Plus, in this case, I had been doubting about his feelings ever since the begining of November, although the one time that I directly asked him whether he was sure he wanted to continue, he emphasized he really was, and he really was not a smooching lying kind of guy. But his acts did not follow his words.

He is a very bright and over-intelligent man who has a demanding job and had an extra-ordinary education, Harvard degrees, nobel prize winners visiting his father... However, emotionally and socially he was not on the same level as intellectually. Plus he repeatedly told me that he had a "very dark side". I knew from in the beginning that that could be an issue. But I respected him, still do, and learnt extremely much from him. For which I am grateful.

As for the actual break-up: it has not been spoken out. I called him one more time, sent a text-message one more time, and again he did not reply eitehr one of them. So after 3 weeks of no news at all I decided to consider it as closed. But I summarized it here on the board as "we broke up".

Would be curious to see if tehre are things in the chart that might help me understand him/it

PS 1: Just discovered that at 13 libra is the fixed star Algorab, key words for which are: Scavenging, destructiveness, repulsiveness, malevolence, fiendishness and lying :shock:

PS 2: Some of you may start curling your toes, but I also checked teh asteroids for our names in the horary chart: Anna makes a sextile with Venus and with Ulrika; Ulrika sextiles Anna and trines Mars... Unfortunately the connections seem merely indicators of the question rather than of the future... However, Ulrika in Pisces in teh 12th may indicate that he was hiding things... moreover it is conjunct Markab, the star of sorrow.

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But I have learnt from the past that when a relationship is over there usually is a reason for it, that one has given all there was to give, learnt and all there was to learn, and that it is time to move on. So it's a philosophical attitude that I have trained myself to have.
Haku,
What a great attitude!! :' .
I'm sorry that things did not work out for you, but I've noticed from my own experience that if we break up with someone, usually someone better shows up next time around. I think a 'break up" is how destiny makes way for someone who is better for you, and gets rid of someone who was not right for you in the first place. You just need to maintain faith in yourself.
Some of you may start curling your toes, but I also checked teh asteroids for our names in the horary chart:

I recall in the asteroid post you mentioned something about Ulrika (I think you said current boyfriend, so I'm assuming that's who it was) being prominently placed in your natal, right? It would appear to me that this person has given you something that you will always have to keep, hence the significance of his name in your natal. What do you think?

Maybe Pete can tell us what he thinks of the placement of Ulrika in the horary??

All the best,
Taurus7

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Maybe Pete can tell us what he thinks of the placement of Ulrika in the horary??
I'll be perfectly honest and say that I don't think we should place too much importance on named asteroids in horary work. If I was to say anything at all about asteroid Ulrike in this chart I would just note its position in the 12th house.
However, the traditional rules of horary interpretation should be observed and followed, first and last. I think the separation of the primary sigs without translation or collection of light tells the whole story here, and the essential dignity of Anna's sig' tells me that she'll survive it just fine...:)
==
Pete

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Haku,
What a great attitude!! .
getting older and wiser. learnt a couple of things after half a life time of banging my head against walls 8)
the essential dignity of Anna's sig' tells me that she'll survive it just fine.
I feel better than before, actually. funnily.

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still trying to figure out the horary... two ideas came to my mind:

1. Moon is at 2 degrees from a perfect trine with Jupiter in 7... Moon is in the 11th, i.e. the 5th of the 7th, and it rules the 4th, i.e. the 10th of the 7th... Could it be that the Moon doesn't represent me (for I saw him only once, 4 weeks after the horary, and it wasn't a particularly close or harmonious meeting) , but another woman, whom he met through his work? :?

2. About Venus, his significator, being in detriment in Scorpio, the sign of my significator: I can't imagine that I or our relationship would have been to his detriment (I'm a loving & lovable person and I have a lot to offer 8) :) ) -- but I take it that it indicates that he had been feeling bad in our relationship for quite a while, or that he was having destructive tendencies. Does that make sense?