edward snowden and solar return technique

1
this fellow has gotten a lot of attention lately.. his birth time has come from another astrologer who got it from a birth cert, so it is considered AA
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Snowden,_Edward

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_snowden

here is my question to others on the board who like working with solar return charts. which one do you think better describes snowdens situation at present - the relocated solar return to hong kong which is where he was at the time of the solar return) or a solar return to his birth place? i am sure there are probably some good rationale for either, but that seems like a watered down type of astrology that can turn everything into an exercise in relativity.

i see the international focus to his situation, along with the legal predicament as putting a focus on the 9th house. the midheaven in the relocated sr chart is conjunct his natal jupiter as well. i think his situation is better reflected in the relocated sr, then the natal one, but would be curious to know others thoughts.

looking at solar return charts, i usually do it in a bi-wheel with the natal chart. i also flip the 2 charts so that either the birth chart or the solar return chart is on the inside to get a better feel for an emphasis on either.. doing it with a relocated sr means i look at 4 charts, as opposed to 2..

i am only sharing the 2 return charts here, but one will need to look at this in conjunction with the natal chart in order to get a fuller picture.

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Hello james_m,

Normally, I would relocate the Solar Return if the person changed their residence during the period of the Return.

Because of this, the Hong Kong chart might in some ways be irrelevant since he only was (approx) a week (into the newest SR period) at that location...

James

4
thanks guys.. i can see getting a viewpoint on these 2 different charts is going to be trickier then i thought.

atlantean james- this is from the wikipedia link i provided up above
" On May 20, Snowden flew to the Chinese territory of Hong Kong. He was staying in a Hong Kong hotel when the initial articles revealing information about the NSA that he had leaked were published."

a month, instead of a week is the length of time he had been residing in hk before his 2013 solar return..

5
Hello james_m

Re: "a month, instead of a week is the length of time he had been residing in hk before his 2013 solar return..."

I said, "...he only was (approx) a week (into the newest SR period) at that location... "

His birthday is the 21st...by the 28th, he was in Moscow. I will say again, he only was (approx) a week (into the newest SR period) at that location...

I still think the SR chart needs to be relocated as that chart will likely be more "vocal".

Take care

James

6
If you are really looking for the loud and clear catch phrase SR that shouts at you-then the Birthtown SR is the best.

MC conj Caput Algol
SN in 9th house of long journeys and metaphysical- higher calling things.

I would say that this is the real highlight that encapsulates his travails.


Don't forget the transit SN:

Conj natal Asc and Asc lord mercury.
Transit SN conj Natal NN.

His actions are very nodal axis- Karma -kind of mish mash.

PD

7
thanks.

james a - i am still confused.. which chart would you use- hong kong or and why astrologically speaking? thanks.

pankajdubey - thanks.. you like the natal solar return for algol on the midheaven and south node in the 9th.. what connections do you make back to the natal chart? thanks.

also, i don't see or understand this part down below.. maybe you could explain that for me. thanks
pankajdubey wrote:
Don't forget the transit SN:
Conj natal Asc and Asc lord mercury.
Transit SN conj Natal NN.
PD

8
Hello james_m,

My (ultimate) point in this issue is that he was only one week in Hong Kong DURING the period of the Solar Return. Think about that... one week out of fifty-two.

I am saying that wherever his residence ends up being, one should relocate the Solar Return for THAT location. (the new residence)

Once he has a new residence, the Hong Kong one should be relatively irrelevant. This is especially true in this case, where Hong Kong was an obvious pit-stop on his way somewhere else...

Take care

James

9
I pre-pruned my study efforts regarding solar returns. I havn't relocated solar returns, possibly ever. Possibly because test-subject #1 (me) hasn't relocated significantly enough to make fruit of comparing the two. Plus it's really inconvenient trying to wonder where people live all the time, for whatever event; biographies aren't written for astrologers. They're terrible usually.

what about tropical vs siderial :brows

10
I suppose maybe if you zoom out on the time, the south node transited the Asc and the north node in the last couple years.

Is this like the prelude from a nodal perspective with a more vedic astrology?

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hi james,

thanks for your reply.. here is what i think.. if someone is going to use solar return data - it is based off the moment in time when the sun returns to the exact same spot where it was when a person was born.. i don't believe it means it has to be at the same location the person was born at! this idea is essentially relocation astrology emphasizing the moment in time, while the location is flexible to where a person happens to be.. whether one wants to adopt this approach which as i understand it was taken by jb morin, jim lewis and others, or forget about the concept of relocation using the natal chart location at all times regardless of where a person is - that is up to the astrologer..

i was hoping to get some astrological feedback connected to the 2 charts i posted here. the rationale you've presented is not astrological, but caught up on a technical issue.. it appears you'd make a decision on the relative usefulness of a particular solar return based on just how long a person was living at the location which is an interesting position to adopt. it seems to imply the moment of the sun's return to it's exact position is only relevant and useful if a person has been stationary for a period of time! one week, one month? i have no idea, but this is what i get from your response.. feel free to elaborate on just when you would or wouldn't use a particular solar return chart - relocated or not.. it would be great if you could comment on what you get from either chart astrologically if you have something to say on either..

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james_m wrote:thanks.

james a - i am still confused.. which chart would you use- hong kong or and why astrologically speaking? thanks.

pankajdubey - thanks.. you like the natal solar return for algol on the midheaven and south node in the 9th.. what connections do you make back to the natal chart? thanks.

also, i don't see or understand this part down below.. maybe you could explain that for me. thanks
pankajdubey wrote:
Don't forget the transit SN:
Conj natal Asc and Asc lord mercury.
Transit SN conj Natal NN.
PD
SR MC square natal MC :D

PD
Last edited by pankajdubey on Sun Jun 30, 2013 9:07 am, edited 1 time in total.