The Al Kindi's perspective quoted actually seem to represent the exception too.
You agree with William Lilly but if you read Christian Astrology, the answer for this horary with 10th house is a no

.

Really?

How exactly does Al-Kindi's technique seem to represent an exception? An exception to what? It's just another kind of approach to horary chart delineation! Al Kindi, as everybody else, considers the 10th as job/profession - as he unequivocally states in The Forty Chapters, p.65

You're repeating yourself and not paying attention to anything I've written, let alone others who are of the same opinion. I've already said there are other ways of obtaining a "yes" answer than by a direct application of the ASC ruler/the Moon with the planet ruling the quesited/vice versa. But that's not the issue here, it's about the general principle that the 10th rules job/profession, not the 6th.

I'd like to know, as I've already said, what made you change your position on Saturn after the result had been known and what is the rationale for assigning job/profession to 6th?

Just to remind you:

The querent asked 'will i be able to get a job i like in the next 3 months? what career should i pursue?'

1ruler Sun is applying a trine to 6 ruler, RX Saturn.

Hi Paul,
My opinion is she will not get a job in the next 3 months.
The querent is applying to Saturn, the competition?

You yourself thought she wouldn't get the job based on this aspect with the ruler of the 6th! Now all of a sudden, it's a yes, precisely because it's the ruler of the 6th??? A very curious change of attitude...

And it's not only Lilly who I agree with, but all of the astrologers preceding him who wrote on horary.

As for the Sun/Saturn application, it's absurd to assign the perfection of the matter to such a contact, for the reasons I've already sufficiently explained and which should be self-evident to anyone familiar with astrological principles.

BTW, Deb's reasoning makes the most sense here. You seem to reject it too.

Goran

I've already said there are other ways of obtaining a "yes" answer than by a direct application of the ASC ruler/the Moon with the planet ruling the quesited/vice versa. But that's not the issue here, it's about the general principle that the 10th rules job/profession, not the 6th.

Moon to trine the ASC is not a way of obtaining a "yes" answer.

As for the Sun/Saturn application, it's absurd to assign the perfection of the matter to such a contact, for the reasons I've already sufficiently explained and which should be self-evident to anyone familiar with astrological principles.

Moon in Cancer applying to trine Saturn in Pisces was a positive indication they will be reunited.
http://www.skyscript.co.uk/CA455.html

For the reasons I've already sufficiently explained and which should be self-evident to anyone familiar with astrological principles, Sun/Saturn application was positive indication she will be able to get the job.

Hi Astrofan,

I believe for the traditionalists here, me inclusive, the main problem is not so much to see lords 6 and 10 connected to perfection. The main problem is that nobody, you inclusive, justifies why at all lord 6 may be chosen in job/career questions. As this new opinion is a dissenting one, it should be justified very well. But as yet all we see is the naming only of two authors, Lehmann and Watters, for this opinion without giving any quotation of their surely good justifications.

It was not only me asking for the justifications of these authors, and of others of course, if there be any.

May I hope that you can provide us with these quotations? Many thanks.

Johannes

I don't think Astrofan made any reference to those authors. One thing I don't like myself, is the idea that the whole chart interpretation rests on choosing one house or another, leading to one summary judgement of yes/no; if yes, when. I think we get much more out of exploring the chart signification whilst keeping certain secure principles in mind. Almost everyone agrees that the 10th house signifies status, vocation, promotion and career - the problem we have is the word "job" - as Morpheus put it:

What is a Job infact?

Job determines who I am in a society. (10th house)
Job bounds me (6th house)

I wonder if anyone disagrees with the view that this querent has not found the ideal, long-term solution, but has accepted a position quickly, probably out of necessity because her circumstances have recently changed? I'm supposing Astrofan, that she moved away from an unhappy situation (Moon separating from 4th-ruler Mars by opposition); but I still feel there has not been enough information given on her background. For example, she asks about what career path she should pursue. How can anyone expect to answer that without knowledge of her age and past experience? It wouldn't make sense, in a consultation, to try to just guess a career path for someone without knowing about their current and previous occupations, their temperamental dispostion and personal inclinations.

Deb wrote:I don't think Astrofan made any reference to those authors. One thing I don't like myself, is the idea that the whole chart interpretation rests on choosing one house or another, leading to one summary judgement of yes/no; if yes, when.

Hi Deb,

of course I know that it was not Astrofan referring to those authors (and I did not say he had) . But as he is also taking house 6 now for jobs, I hoped he could illustrate their justifications by wordly quotation or in his own words. This question for quotation has been made by other members of this discussion repeatedly to all members of the forum by the way.

As to the houses, do you not agree that to know which house is the one proper to the question is an essential in every question?

I beg your pardon that I have not answered to your yesterday text, but I still try to verify your suggestion to judge a Yes (possibly) by the the Moon, Dispostor of Venus, trining the ascendant in application.

Geoffrey wrote: [...] read "Horary Astrology and the Judgment of Events" by Barbara Watters, and "The Martial Art of Horary Astrology" by Lee Lehman. Both give 'the job' to the 6th house. Both give reasons why and both give example charts.

But, unless you are prepared to accept these renowned modern astrologers as "horary authorites", or to except their experience and examples as "evidence", I cannot help you.

If only you or anybody else would try to help us to learn, which reasons Barbara Watters and Lee Lehman give for their allotting jobs to the 6th house. I really don't understand why the question whether they are accepted or not as authorities is of any concern.

In a discussion it seems to be proper, when claiming an author was of a certain opinion and justified it, to give a quotation of this opinion and justification, be it worldly or in ones own words.

Johannes

Johannes,

In this thread I quoted from 'Lee Lehman', on 5th of July 2013

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 39&start=0

I assure you that I have given the exact quote and I have not added word from my own. It would be best if you buy her book and study it for yourself. The examples/solved horary on 6th house by 'Lehman' can not be typed because they are too lengthy.

Also consider please that Lee Lehman's work is under copyright, so I don't think we can reproduce large chunks of text from her book without getting her permission first.

Morpheus,

let me repeat my thanks for you, given in the other thread of this topic, for the quotation and the labour you had!

Really, I had hoped there would be another explanation of Lehman's claims - in vain obviously. So sticking to the given one I should like to rely on that soon.

Johannes

Deb wrote:Also consider please that Lee Lehman's work is under copyright, so I don't think we can reproduce large chunks of text from her book without getting her permission first.

Hi Deb,

would you agree with me that ten sentences out of a book of 352 pages are allowed?

But to avoid legal problems and not to offend the authors' rights, could you or anyone else say where limits would be a with literal quotoations of a work under copyright, please?

Johannes

Hi
The arabic astrologer in last century "Abd Al-Fattah Altoukhy" in his book "Rules of the wise in astrology" , said "the 10th house is the house of high jobs and noble works. While the 6th house is the house of the hard works"

Of his speech , I deduced, now, that because the 6th house is the house of slaves and servants , so it's works hard and heavy. And in the opposite the 10th house.

So, I can add to identify and detemine the job l work of a native or horary,that from the planet which is in the 6th l 10th or aspect them or the lords of them and so on ?

Deb,

Thanks for pointing that out. I read the inner cover of Lee Lehman's book which says/reads

"All rights reserved. No part of this work.........-without the written permission from the copyright holder"

So, it seems that the para i quoted was also without her written permission. I don't have a heart to delete that quote. Moderators, please do the needful

Its nice of you to allow reviewers to quote from your book.