Hi Meredith
In fact, long time I spent to connect midicene, philosophy and astrology to gather . I was wrote an essay in 'Alchamel Forum' about 2 years ago connecting thses three lines to make a triangle, It's base is philosophy . The Greek Jalinus said : the Doctor must know this natural triangle to be a complete doctor .

Then I got tiere enough to make agreement between the chart's houses and the parts of blood, and how the chart construct temperaments . Now I find you supporting me by saying Indian did so. I add, That triangle is deficient needs a thing to be completed, as a flower without smell. So, the triangle needs another smell, another taste and colour, that Is religion, the road to God, and the essintial of truth to guide to pure spirituality, witout him then our existence is a body and a mass of heavy idol, that is the real death, eternity death.

do you mean that if a person is overwhelmingly one temperament type that they will be 'unmoderate' in their expression/ personality? Or are they unmoderate if there is no balance in their houses/ aspects?

Really, it's impossible finding one temperament isolately. but no balance between quantity and soul , that means one of them dominates the others. At this case will appear similar things to all what concerns body and soul derivated from that temperament as ethics, habits, creed and works. So one wise said 'ajust your balances' .

Again, I still struggle with figuring out how the temperament works in relation to the other parts of the person. For instance, as in my chart (thanks for looking) .. using Lilly's temperament delineation I'm pretty much 100% choleric, yet I don't exhibit what you would expect to be the worst of that temperament type.. but is this because I can't be bothered because of the lazy sun/venus conjunction tucked away in the twelfth house?

If you like so, look to kinds of food how they make to gather a good temperament if the the mixing is moderate, and if no there will be evil one .
The choleric temp. merely 'hotldry' gives quick emotion, love money, pure heart, cleverness, leadership ?
It's important note, that every temp. has two borders and middle, Aristotel said ' the virtue is middle between two depravetis '

n terms of the Lord of the manners being saturn in detriment, I guess despite outward appearances I do feel unsure in 'stepping out' into the usual choleric pursuits that I'd probably be best suited to. I think my job would be better suited to a phlegmatic type, my leisure/ social time is okay some of the time though possibly best suited to a melancholic or sanguine...

Never, I think phlegmatic job is not suitable to you,because phlegmatib is watery, while choleri is firy, then water and fire are enemies, ther's no agreement between them .
But you have 'drylhot' temp. not 'hotldry' because you are not positive emotional (angy) but negative emotional and this appear with concern and sadness because your Venus at 12th (exile).
But yes the suitable thing as jobs are melancholic or sanguine

nahid.fs wrote: Never, I think phlegmatic job is not suitable to you,because phlegmatic is watery, while choleric is fiery, then water and fire are enemies, there's no agreement between them

hi nahid,

thanks for sharing your thoughts. i am curious to know why you say this about water and fire. what is the basis for it?

i think fire and water share something in that both are less rational, unlike earth and air which i think is much more rational.. thoughts anyone?

for anyone interested, besides liz greenes book 'saturn - a new look at an old devil', my other most favourite book of hers is 'astrology for lovers'.. the publisher picked the title which is really stupid actually. the content of the book however is very good. she discusses the elements from more of a jungian point of view with a lot of mythology thrown in. she suggests that earth and fire have a natural attraction to one another as does water and air with one another.. this might go against one's way of thinking but i found the book to be extremely insightful for anyone interested. i read it a long time ago though..

hi james
the quotes are in red colour
thanks for sharing your thoughts. i am curious to know why you say this about water and fire. what is the basis for it ?
Natural powers 'fire, air, water, earth' are built upon friendly and enemy . The friends are 'fire, air' and 'water,earth' . and the enemies are 'fire, water' and ' air, earth' . and as it's known those powers made the three nativities : metals, plants and animals (silent, speaking) .
In electricity there's two lines hot and cool, but without amedium line (tengisteen) it will not happen light but happen harm, struggle and war

On the other hand, how can we float a fire ?
Here, we have two ways : 1- by preventing it's friend whom is the air. 2- by water
If there's no enemy between fire and water then when we add the water will the fire not die but increase. You may say some water gives fire more powe, yes that's right, that's as some enemy gives power and resistant, as the children's vaccines. But more water or vaccines will kill.

If we can apply these concepts in the chart, we may will never be wrong in interpretations and predictions, that we note in it, their coloures around it (red, blue, ?)

There's more details with the expert of letter's and nature's sciences, which I get the concept and bases of them, as Abd Al Fattah Al touchy, and others

i think fire and water share something in that both are less rational, unlike earth and air which i think is much more rational.. thoughts anyone ?
Yes, this share is necessary to product in all over the universe as our bodies. the blood, which keep the body, has the four power or elements. We will never see tow or three of them give a body, and every part of the body has the fourth it self in various measurements, and this variousity is the reason why there's bons, hair, meat, skin, lipid and so on ?
In plants we have wheat 'hot l wet' but in fact it has 'cool l dry' , and we have barley 'cool l dry' also it has 'hot l wet'. I think this the shring ot the four elements with variouse reportions

The experts of letters science and spirituality as Alfishtaly and Ibn Azzooz and others, didn't declare clearly by the reality of how those four natures do and work

they said that every nature has three cases of 'life, prison and death'
And there's variouse points of view about this concept, some one say :
Fire lives by air, and prisons by earth, and dies by water
Earth lives by water, prisons by fire, dies by air
Air lives by water, prisons by fire, dies by earth
Water lives by earth, prisons by air, dies by fire

Now, the problem is how to apply that at the chart ?

nahid.fs wrote:The experts of letters science and spirituality as Alfishtaly and Ibn Azzooz and others, didn't declare clearly by the reality of how those four natures do and work

they said that every nature has three cases of 'life, prison and death'
And there's variouse points of view about this concept, some one say :

Fire lives by air, and prisons by earth, and dies by water
Earth lives by water, prisons by fire, dies by air
Air lives by water, prisons by fire, dies by earth
Water lives by earth, prisons by air, dies by fire

Now, the problem is how to apply that at the chart ?

that 4 line stanza is like a puzzle nahid. the 1st, 2nd and 4th make a certain sense to me but the 3rd line seems inconsistent with the other 3 in the middle part - prisons by fire.. why is it prisons by fire get 2 spots? are there no prisons by water? obviously these folks have never heard of alcatrez!!