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Skyscript Astrology Forum

void of course moon concept applied in horary or natal astro
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
Posts: 764
Location: Rawalpindi/Islamabad (Pakistan)

Posted: Tue Jun 04, 2013 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_m,

Some of my friends are interested in pursuing 'Modern Western Astrology', though I follow a different 'Natal Astrology', few years I was asked to take part in a research. The informal research was aimed at finding the effects of 'Void of Course action of Moon' when we progress the Moon (Progressed Moon). It was confirmed that 'if progressed Moon becomes void of course for a certain years/months, nothing much is happening in the life of the subject. A kind of status quo existence for the duration of 'Void of Course Moon'.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 4:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

geoffrey,

thanks for that kind response. i appreciate it!

gryffindor,

that was interesting! obviously those folks don't work with midpoints or they would have seen the moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoint pictures!!! cheers - james
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Quote:
that was interesting! obviously those folks don't work with midpoints or they would have seen the moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoint pictures!!! cheers - james


No, they did not use mid points, but if you do, there is a fair chance that you would see moon moving thru all sorts of important midpoints and you would also not find Moon Void of Course. Smile

On a serious note. James, do you use mid points in predictive astrology? I confess that 'Mid Points', make me curious. Once I solved a difficult case through the help of mid points (L ' Ennui movie)
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 6:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gryffindor,

i do use midpoints in predictive astrology. i look at midpoints and find they can shed valuable information on where a person is at in the present based on my work with solar arc directions. let me give you an example.. the midpoint of veritas saturn/jupiter is at 29 libra 38.. this is the person asking about starting a political party on another thread. i don't think it is a coincidence that this duo of planets in the 2nd house put an emphasis on a concern for money( although i implied the same based on this persons natal chart with a triple conjunction on the edge of the 2nd house, and including jupiter in scorpio which i view as also 2nd house) - money is a 2nd house( or 8th to an extent) issue, or that to a degree they represent an interest in starting a political party.. you see the solar arc direction of the angles to veritas chart based on the 735pm time they gave has just changed signs with sa ascendant at 0 scorpio 42.. if we use a rectified time of 731pm - the sa ascendant is now at 29 libra 57, while the sa midheaven is squaring onto this point at 29 cancer 40.. the only reason i point out another possible time is thru private conversation with veritas mentioning this to me... regardless of the specific time 735pm or 731pm - the solar arc angles are very close to this midpoint and i think they reflect some of what veritas is focused on..

i don't want to get into the details of this different thread here and if you want another example, perhaps i can provide one via a pm! i think the pioneering work done by those astrologers who have considered midpoints to be a valuable addition to astrology plain and simple. those who ignore midpoints and only pay attention to one on one dynamics with planets or angles will see and get a lot from a chart too, but they might miss just how these energies are coloured.. this is what i believe midpoint data offers..

sorry for the wordy response..

cheers james
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Morpheus



Joined: 21 Mar 2007
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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 5:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

James_m,

Wonderful. Thanks a lot. You have piqued my interest. I would take out my copy of 'Combination of Stellar Influences' and start experimenting. But as I dont use 'Solar Arc and Progressions in my natal work, I will try to combine it with Triple layered Transit System.
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Ariondys



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 8:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gryffindor wrote:
few years I was asked to take part in a research. The informal research was aimed at finding the effects of 'Void of Course action of Moon' when we progress the Moon (Progressed Moon). It was confirmed that 'if progressed Moon becomes void of course for a certain years/months, nothing much is happening in the life of the subject. A kind of status quo existence for the duration of 'Void of Course Moon'.

ah heck, is that what's wrong, the thought had occured to me as my pMoon is in the last degree now. It might be hard to tell if nada is happening in my life though, that might not be so unusual. No way for me to know since I don't really know what a VOC means. and watching conversations on the subject makes me think I wouldn't even be able to tell if it is or not.
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Morpheus



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Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ariondys,

Quote:
ah heck, is that what's wrong, the thought had occured to me as my pMoon is in the last degree now. It might be hard to tell if nada is happening in my life though, that might not be so unusual. No way for me to know since I don't really know what a VOC means. and watching conversations on the subject makes me think I wouldn't even be able to tell if it is or not.


We applied 'VOC' slightly different from what is understood in Traditional Astrology. and we had to rule out those cases where important 'Transits where happening. Still, I was just a research associate (unpaid). I do not apply 'VOC' in my natal chart readings. Smile
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Ariondys



Joined: 31 Oct 2012
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Location: Vancouver Island, Canada

Posted: Thu Jun 06, 2013 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my pMoon changes signs, 2 years ago, 5 years ago, 7, 9...
say, within a month. I could point to change. it could get mucked up into my house cusps...

Can-moved towns to reach classes for a 3rd school semester after a summer off(I moved twice, before and after the sign change)
Leo-joined a club
Vir-quit that club
Lib-moved across town
Sco- n/a yet

it would be too literal to complain that change could occur 1/2 a degree prior to the sign change I guess...
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Jupiterianquest



Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 2:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Could someone clarify a few things Confused

Let's assume the native's Moon's at 24 Aries and Venus is at 1 Taurus. My question is whether the Moon's void or not.
Confused
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi jupiterianquest,

welcome to skyscript!

a better place for you to start would be on this thread - http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=7399
hopefully they gives you the answer you are looking for.
james
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Jupiterianquest



Joined: 06 Jun 2013
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 7:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James_m

So I looked at three charts. The Moon makes no major ptolemaic aspect before leaving it's sign. However in all three cases, it is still within orbit of its last aspectual contact and its next aspectual contact(in the next sign).

Chart 1 - my chart
Moon's peregrine, void of course and placed in the malefic 8H. A benefic sits in the 10th.

Chart 2 -
Peregrine, void of course but sits in it's house of joy. No benefic in any angular house.

Chart 3 -
Peregrine, void of course, sits in the 9H. Sun here is a benefic and sits in the 1st but is afflicted by a conjunction to Mars.

We aren't destitute, beggars.... and I hope I never get reduced to that state. Exclamation
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiterianquest wrote:
Could someone clarify a few things Confused

Let's assume the native's Moon's at 24 Aries and Venus is at 1 Taurus. My question is whether the Moon's void or not.
Confused

Following Ibn Ezra (and others), who claims that the Moon or another planet has to perfect his aspect or conjunction within the sign of his position, the Moon would be void of course.

Following Lilly (and others), who states application within the Moon's (or another planet's) sign of position is sfficient, the Moon would not be void of course here.

Johannes
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jupiterianquest wrote:
Thanks James_m

So I looked at three charts. The Moon makes no major ptolemaic aspect before leaving it's sign. However in all three cases, it is still within orbit of its last aspectual contact and its next aspectual contact(in the next sign).

Chart 1 - my chart
Moon's peregrine, void of course and placed in the malefic 8H. A benefic sits in the 10th.

Chart 2 -
Peregrine, void of course but sits in it's house of joy. No benefic in any angular house.

Chart 3 -
Peregrine, void of course, sits in the 9H. Sun here is a benefic and sits in the 1st but is afflicted by a conjunction to Mars.

We aren't destitute, beggars.... and I hope I never get reduced to that state. Exclamation

Following Lilly, in none of these three charts the Moon would be void of course, because "in all three cases, it is still within orbit of its last aspectual contact and its next aspectual contact(in the next sign)."

Johannes
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Deb
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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ezra gives the view of older authorities, that planets in different signs should not be said to be said to be in conjunction, but notice he then says: "That is the opinion of the ancient scientists but I, Avraham, the compiler of this book, disagree with them” (Beginning of Wisdom, Levy and Cantera p.209).
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johannes susato



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Posted: Fri Jun 07, 2013 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Deb wrote:
Ezra gives the view of older authorities, that planets in different signs should not be said to be said to be in conjunction, but notice he then says: "That is the opinion of the ancient scientists but I, Avraham, the compiler of this book, disagree with them” (Beginning of Wisdom, Levy and Cantera p.209).

But in the special case of the void of course Moon he claims the Moon to be void of course, when it "does not join another planet as long as it is in that same sign, or no planet beholds it by a complete aspect, whichever it may be." (The Beginning of Widom, Epstein, p.120.)
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