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Skyscript Astrology Forum

will the guys hire me (qurent) for new job?
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 12:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicdolphin wrote:
[...] Yeah moon is not doing anything either. Moon aspects Merc only after Merc changes signs.

CD, you seem to begin to move in a circle: Indirectly you ask a question which had already been your question in the beginning:
cosmicdolphin wrote:
Two things are throwing me off. Can a translation of light happen out of a sign?

I repeat that, following Lilly for example, sign boundaries are no problem for applying aspects. But here the significators (Venus and Mercury) are not yet in application, because they are still out of their orbs, and in addition they have to run a distance before they join in conjunction, which is far too long (about twice the distance of their orbs!) in my experience as that the matter (getting the job) could be perfected.

Johannes
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 1:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes susato

I get what you are saying I was summerizing to Cor Scorpii since he didnt look at the chart.

Out of orb is not prohibition. I think Tanit said that a while back that usually it means that the whatever is out of orb, it is not ready for the querent or some long delay. in this case it is both the switch of the signs and long wait. Job conditions have to change. I am not sure if Venus could represent a female competitor. I am not even dabbling into that. I have never seen Venus to be a prohibitor except in love horaries.

cheers
CD
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 4:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I was summerizing to Cor Scorpii since he didnt look at the chart.


Laughing Laughing Laughing a very interesting conclusion.
I'd say you haven't looked into what I've written at all, let alone thought about it.

Regards,
Goran


Last edited by cor scorpii on Fri May 24, 2013 8:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Thu May 23, 2013 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goran

OHH BLOOY hell.. I mistaken you for Gryffindor. ... sorry mate, i am just losing it atm. Finals this week. I thought it was you. You and I got a NO on this one.

bonks self
CD
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

cosmicdolphin wrote:
Goran

OHH BLOOY hell.. I mistaken you for Gryffindor. ... sorry mate, i am just losing it atm. Finals this week. I thought it was you. You and I got a NO on this one.

bonks self
CD


It's OK, mistakes happen Wink


Quote:
cor scorpii,

I don't see how would the querent be an oppossor.


A LADY, if marry the GENTLEMAN desired?

...had she demanded, Whether the Quesited had been rich? I must have considered Jupiter Lord of his 2nd house, whom I find in his Exaltation, Direct, Swift, &c. only under the Sun-Beames; I should have adjudged his Estate good.
CA II, p. 388 (the second edition, 1659.)

The querent is signified by the ascendant in Leo and its lord, the Sun in Cancer, applying to Jupiter.

Rregards,
Goran
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu May 30, 2013 11:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As usual Goran, CosmicDolphin, Johannes, and Gryffindor are creating a great discussion.

But I have Not read thoroughly through the entire thread, digested all the debate, and as I'm certain it's noted, Luna is moving at less than 12 degrees per day in this horary.

Does she actually perfect with Hermes(Mercury) before Hermes skips over the horizon into the sign of his 'essential dignity'?

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/aspects.html

Or does Hermes(Mercury) escape?

2) I note that Mercury by al Biruni's table that Lilly utilized is awful close and didn't Lilly not nessasarily stay within the confines of moiety or did he not vary from time to time?

3) Years ago on Angelicus Merlin forum, owned and moderated by the adept Dorothy J. Kovach, this concept that Lilly used of the matter being aspected yet already in another sign that generally was not thought as traditional had been discussed.

The bulk, if not all Contemporary Traditionalists saw Lilly's method as in error as we discussed the horary I had asked using Lilly's method and they had the consensus that Lilly was wrong on this.

And to this day, years later that matter has not perfected even if the aspect did.

But we know the first aspect to the matter perfecting does not nessasarily mean it will be as Terms, Face, Dignity, lord of the hour, etc., have to be weighed to find the true verdict.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Fri May 31, 2013 11:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:
Does she actually perfect with Hermes(Mercury) before Hermes skips over the horizon into the sign of his 'essential dignity'?
Or does Hermes(Mercury) escape?
Yes, Clinton, Mercury is already at 00.00 Gemini (at 1:42), when the Moon is still at 29.02 Cancer.

Clinton Soule wrote:
2) I note that Mercury by al Biruni's table that Lilly utilized is awful close and didn't Lilly not nessasarily stay within the confines of moiety or did he not vary from time to time?
At the time of the question, the Moon and Mercury are in an (still) applying sextile.

Clinton Soule wrote:
3) Years ago on Angelicus Merlin forum, owned and moderated by the adept Dorothy J. Kovach, this concept that Lilly used of the matter being aspected yet already in another sign that generally was not thought as traditional had been discussed.

The bulk, if not all Contemporary Traditionalists saw Lilly's method as in error as we discussed the horary I had asked using Lilly's method and they had the consensus that Lilly was wrong on this.
But this error was not Lilly's error but the early error of those who "re-discovered" Lilly as an authority. As Deb has stated repeatedly it was Sue Ward, who simply read what Lilly had written, took him by the words of his defintion of void and there were nor "errors" with his examples any longer.

Clinton Soule wrote:
But we know the first aspect to the matter perfecting does not nessasarily mean it will be as Terms, Face, Dignity, lord of the hour, etc., have to be weighed to find the true verdict.
This statement of yours seems to be interesting: In my opinion we would need a perfection between lords 1 and 10 (if at all the job is one of the quality of the tenth!).

This could be by translation.
1. The Moon could translate the light of the Sun to Venus, but is hindered by the sextile with Mercury, who is no signficator in the question. The question is whether the Moon's translation is still hindered by the excaped Mercury, when the Moon perfects the - possibly "new" - sextile after the entrance of both planets into the next sign.
The void of course problem is always discussed, when the planet is already in the next sign and the general rule of escape does not apply.

I wonder how the conflict of escaping on the one side and being not void of course on the other is to be resolved.

2. Mercury could translate the light of the Sun to Venus. Leaving aside the problem of the hindrance by the sextile of the Moon with Mercury I repeat here the answer I gave to CD very early in this thread.
Following Lilly and Dariot for example, the fact that Mercury had to change the sign for translation should not be the problem with this question.
But here Mercury and Venus are still out of their orbs (and this even if you take Lilly's large orbs where Venus gets 8) then Mercury and Venus being sill apart more than the for application necessary 7 1/2 degrees.
There still is another problem: The way both planets have to run until their conjunction, is about or more than twice the orbs of the planets. In practice this does not work and so the translation of the Sun light to Venus by Mercury, would not work in my opinion.

Altogether I would be surprised if the querent would get the job the Moon being lord of the 12th and her in the twelfth at the very end of her sign and immediately entering into her peregrination.

Johannes
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 7:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes stated:

Quote:
Clinton Soule wrote:
3) Years ago on Angelicus Merlin forum, owned and moderated by the adept Dorothy J. Kovach, this concept that Lilly used of the matter being aspected yet already in another sign that generally was not thought as traditional had been discussed.

The bulk, if not all Contemporary Traditionalists saw Lilly's method as in error as we discussed the horary I had asked using Lilly's method and they had the consensus that Lilly was wrong on this.

Johannes:

But this error was not Lilly's error but the early error of those who "re-discovered" Lilly as an authority. As Deb has stated repeatedly it was Sue Ward, who simply read what Lilly had written, took him by the words of his defintion of void and there were nor "errors" with his examples any longer.


Sorry for the delay in responding Johannes, your responses are always so deeply profound it sometimes takes a few of us a while to meditate upon what sco depth or Saturn thoroughness that you may be enlightening us with.

Are you stating that Sue Ward understood what Lilly stated about the perfection can be made even if the other has passed into another sign?

Or did she also misunderstand the concept?

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1464

Posted: Mon Jun 03, 2013 10:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clinton Soule wrote:

Are you stating that Sue Ward understood what Lilly stated about the perfection can be made even if the other has passed into another sign?

Or did she also misunderstand the concept?

Sue Ward was probably one of the first who discovered that the critique with Lilly, he would not follow his own defintion of void of course, simply was wrong.

Maurice Maccann had produced the book The Void of Course Moon: A study of the technique as used by William Lilly, where he had shown very elaboratedly all alledged mistakes and errors made by Lilly.
This critique was confuted by Sue Ward in an article also published in the internet. Regrettably I cannot find it anymore, not even on Ward's website!
Perhaps someone can help by a link, please ?!.

Of course Sue Ward understands Lilly's concept very well. Even though not so detailed as in the above mentioned article, this is supported by her article "An Introduction to the Astrology of William Lilly" on her website
http://easyweb.easynet.co.uk/~sueward/articles/astrologyof%20lilly.htm
under the heading "Void of Course".

Here you can also find the relevant examples with their charts appended.

Johannes
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Clinton Soule



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Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Jun 05, 2013 10:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes stated:

Quote:
Sue Ward was probably one of the first who discovered that the critique with Lilly, he would not follow his own defintion of void of course, simply was wrong.

Maurice Maccann had produced the book The Void of Course Moon: A study of the technique as used by William Lilly, where he had shown very elaboratedly all alledged mistakes and errors made by Lilly.
This critique was confuted by Sue Ward in an article also published in the internet. Regrettably I cannot find it anymore, not even on Ward's website!
Perhaps someone can help by a link, please ?!.


This is that thin ice area in horary, as many on this Forum and other students like myself have misunderstood methods of Lilly that just can not seem to be grasped by studying CA alone.

Like a recognized authority in horary writes what he thought he understood about a grey area, then he leads a bandwagon on a campaign that is hard to dislodge the errors because of the reputation of the alleged authority.

So Johannes you are saying that Lilly's method of utilizing aspects even though we might have to go into the next sign like Venus at 25 degrees Virgo applying to Saturn at two degrees Gemini is reliable as Lilly used it, and most if not many bother to accept this?

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 5:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

UPDATE

HAPPY NEW YEAR everyone!

This job is completely NO GO! REALLY REALLY unstable company and they are god knows where they are mentally.

A lot to do for little money!

So it is a NO!

thanks everyone
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cor scorpii



Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Tue Dec 31, 2013 9:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the update, CD Thumbs up

And happy New Year!

Regards,
Goran
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cosmicdolphin



Joined: 15 Jun 2007
Posts: 730

Posted: Wed Jan 01, 2014 1:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Goran

Horary never ceases to amaze me how descriptive it is when the question comes from one's heart. It is sooo spot on. Everything that was wrong it nailed.

Venus was in MR from Merc - Merc changes signs leaving venus literally naked
then Mars on MC - agression / hostile - true
Sun has the control of the situation ... she could pick if she wants to go for it for not. True. She had to do 1 thing and she backed out.

I do not know if Moon perfected sextile before Merc jumped the sign byut whatever it is i didnt like that moon was ruling 12th house and exded a sextile with sun (self undoing). it could have brought her harm somehow.

if i went strictly 1/7, it would be flat out NO. Saturn is in bad condition. Retro, Cadent and malefic - it couldn't get any worse!

Cheers again! Have a safe and happy New year!
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