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pin the tail on the jong-ki
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:24 am    Post subject: pin the tail on the jong-ki Reply with quote


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i have an idea of which chart best describes kim jong un, but i would be curious to get others feedback on this topic of what is the valid birthdate for him.

north korea has on it's records that he is born jan 8 1982, in Pyongyang, north korea. many sources like to suggest 1983, or 1984 is a more likely candidate.

since we don't have a time of day for his birth either some astrologers may feel it is a complete waste of time, or too subjective an exercise to want to engage in, but for any of those who do, i would be curious getting feedback from others here on a particular astrological rationale for one of these 3 years to choose from.

wikipedia gives us some personal characteristics on him -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-un
"He was described as shy, a good student who got along well with his classmates and was a basketball fan."
"Pak-un first attended a special class for foreign-language children and later attended the regular classes of the 6th, 7th, 8th and part of the final 9th year, leaving the school abruptly in fall 2000. He was described as a well-integrated and ambitious student who liked to play basketball.However, his grades and attendance rating are reported to have been poor."
"According to some reports, Jong-un was described by classmates as a shy child who was awkward with girls, indifferent to political issues but distinguished himself in sports, and had a fascination with the American National Basketball Association and Michael Jordan. One friend claimed that he had been shown pictures of Pak-un with Kobe Bryant and Toni Kukoč taken at an unknown location."

to complicate matters further some feel it was his older brother who attended the school where the first quote is directly related to. his older brother Kim Jong-chul is born September 25, 1981. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Jong-chol
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 1:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James!!

GREAT sense of humor!!! The title of your thread just makes me laugh !!!! SO FUNNY!!! I love it!! I'm still laughing over it!!! Thanks for the great sense of humor and laughter!!!!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks morning sun! it is easy to make you laugh! me - i laugh at my own jokes which is considered pretty tacky, but i haven't tried to fit in on this level anyway.. i have a laugh like that cartoon character muttley.. you are probably old enough to remember that!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SKm5xQyD2vE

looks like that medieval astrologer from spain posted this, lol..
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MorningSun



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Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

TOO FUNNY!! I think that : pin the tail on the jong-ki, is really clever and just Hilarius!! For some reason it just tickles my funny bone. I still laugh when I think about it!! Yes, I used to do impressions of mutley as a kid!! Love the laughs!!
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james_m



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Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

okay.. here is some of my rationale for why i think 1983 is the correct year of birth for kim jong un..

his dad Kim Jong-il birthdate is feb 15th or 16th either 1941 or 1942.. it runs in the family this intentional or not desire to obscure the actual birth year.

kim jong un 1983 chart has mars at about 22 aquarius conjunct the sun position of his dad. his dad has said he thought this son was the most likely to stand up and take a more aggressive position compared to the other son that was perceived as more feminine or women like, according to his fathers chef who had come out and said this publicly. from synastry we know, or i tend to believe a person who has mars on the other persons sun is definitely more likely to come across as aggressive or assertive..

maybe it is a coincidence, but kim jong un is said to be a real basketball fan and a big fan of michael jordan.. jordans birthdate is feb 17 1963.. we see this same position of the natal sun in both kim jong un's father and michael jordan..

now i realize this is pretty flimsy evidence to suggest 1983 is the likely year of his birth, but the other data that points in this direction is a bit more labour intensive to post. i note that a.h. cats is also working with the 1983 chart whether based on him looking into this more closely or not.. he offers a rectified time for kim jong un somewhere closer to 11am as i recall with pisces rising. this isn't too far off the noon chart with aries rising. kim jong un's facial feature suggest something more piscean then aries from what i have seen so i can see the logic up to a point in a pisces as opposed to aries rising chart.. either way if the time is in the ball park and the actual year is 1983, we have a person who is experiencing an important saturn return, along with a major transit of saturn to natal moon which on the surface doesn't sound so pretty.. i think this does make sense up to a point as well..
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damon



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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

bazi suggests 1983 strongly
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 3:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think we can assume they're lying about 1982, they want to make him seem older to try to give him more credibility.
Graham
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james_m



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Posted: Sun Apr 07, 2013 4:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks damon and graham,

damon - by bazi are you referring to basil fearrington? perhaps if you provided a link, it would be more interesting and informative. thanks!

graham - the problem with assuming anyone is lying is it can go a number of ways, but i get your point and understand the rationale for the lie to be expressed in an attempt to exaggerate the age.. thanks!
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In duplo - to be deleted.
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Last edited by Andrew Bevan on Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:19 am; edited 2 times in total
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Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, I think that the people in the area, including their leaders, are all victims of a system and trapped by tradition. Either way, I believe that they need help to solve the situation that has occurred. I saw a rather ridiculous manipulated photo of Kim Jong Un in a Norwegian newspaper and guess it went all round the world. I can't see how this eases the raging temper of a guy who is sat with his finger on the button of some of the world's most deadly weapons and that has the potential of ruining so many peoples lives.

I would not be sure to judge upon the time Kim Jong Un was born, but may comment on the situation like this; If he is born in on Jan 8. 1983 his Moon will be in Scorpio and considering that Saturn is in the degree of the fall of the Moon, I fear he may do great damage - but that this also may mean the end to the regime. If he is born on Jan 8. 1984 then his Moon is in Pisces, and this is all I can see on pictures so far. He has an emotional, sensitive and piscean look to his face, and is always surrounded by several officers (pisces). Photographs show him 'looking at maps', 'looking through binoculars', 'sitting at technical instruments that reminds of pianos', etc. - all piscean. Pisces is often a token of vulnerability and emotional needs, often accompanied with finer sides. I am sure he feels a great loving towards his grandfather, but on a level that may be hard to express.

If the Moon is in Pisces there his a higher probability that he will waver and withdraw the current threat. With Chiron and Neptune buzzing around his Moon there may be some hope of the situation softening up, and maybe this would open the door for some diplomacy. This seems well out of reach at present, but there are still options...
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james_m



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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi andrew,

first off - thanks for commenting! kudos on your age point technique for isolating a possible time for concern on thatcher as well. it reminds me of a saturn transit applied a certain way, but after going and reading on your site, i see it isn't that.. it would be nice to see you demonstrate it on someone else in advance here at skyscript.

i did mention based on his looks i thought pisces rising was much more likely.. these 3 charts i posted are all for noon in the absence of an actual birth time.. the next place to focus on is the moon which is what i did, and you as well. i don't see the moon in scorpio as all that tough, but more vulnerable but different then moon in pisces. it is hard to get much off a chart without a specific time, but we can get some. yes he is probably constantly surrounded by bodyguards but i don't know if that suggests moon in pisces anymore then moon in scorpio. both the 83 scorpio moon and the 84 pisces moon have a saturn in scorpio which is a more suspicious prone position as i see it.. if 83, the conjunction of moon and saturn squaring onto mercury would be very much this way and might think having more bodyguards would be a way of dealing with that..

here is another consideration to ponder.. the news on north korea really got under way only recently.. however on january 24 2013 north korea gave a blunt new threat to the usa that seems to have gotten the ball rolling on this.. if you look at the astro for this date you will quickly note the mars position at 22 aquarius which is the very same spot of mars in the 83 chart. this date is also right on the jupiter station turning retro which would oppose the natal uranus in the 83 chart as well. if the time is close for the 83 chart the transit of saturn at 10 scorpio would also connect directly to this moon in scorpio in the 83 chart.

i am not fully committed to the 83 chart for kim jong un, and i do think one picks up a piscean vibe off his picture which could be from the rising sign just as easily as the moon sign.. on balance i still think the 83 chart is a better fit..

the next dates that north korea shows up prominently in the news are march 8th and march 13th. during this time mercury is retrograde, a feature more complicated due the fact both the 83 and 84 chart contain a mercury retrograde. usually if a number of dynamics come out under a mercury retro, it may imply a greater likelihood of a mercury retro back to the natal chart, but we aren't helped in this instance trying to decide between the 83 and 84 chart.

however one notes on march 8th the exact trine of uranus to natal uranus in the 83 chart while on march 13th, mercury while retro squares onto natal uranus in the 83 chart.. i can't quite get as much connection with the 84 to this pivotal time frame either. obviously the transition on march 13th of mars into aries, with the moon also in aries highlights this news release from nk as described on wikipedia - "On 13 March 2013, North Korea confirmed it ended the 1953 Armistice and declared North Korea "is not restrained by the North-South declaration on non-aggression."

here is the news release for march 8th 2013 - "On 8 March 2013, the North Korean government announced that it was withdrawing from all non-aggression pacts with South Korea in response to UN Resolution 2094. The announcement said it was closing its joint border crossing with South Korea and cutting off the hotline to the South."

the one last piece of recent information that encourages me to believe the moon in scorpio is the more likely position for kim jong uns birthyear is from march 30 2013 when this news was released - "On 30 March 2013, the North Korean government declared it was in 'a state of war' with South Korea. A North Korean statement promised "stern physical actions" against "any provocative act". The North Korean leader Kim Jong-un declared that rockets were ready to be fired at American bases in the Pacific in response to the US flying two nuclear-capable B2 stealth bombers over the Korean peninsula. The United States warned North Korea that the rapidly escalating military confrontation would lead to further isolation, as The Pentagon declared that the US was 'fully capable' of defending itself and its allies against a missile attack."

if you look at the transits on march 30th the first thing you will note is the transit of moon in scorpio.. at the same time mercury is in pisces close to the vicinity of the 84 moon in pisces, if the noon time is close.. on this date jupiter is now exactly opposite the 84 chart uranus..

i am trying to be impartial, but i continue to believe the 83 chart is the more likely chart for kim jong un. it is possible a time closer to 11am with pisces rising makes a certain amount of sense too, but it is hard to lean into a chart that one isn't even sure on the year, let alone the time of day!

moon in scorpio is a placement that arouses greater suspicion.. i see this as a big problem with anyone with this placement and especially for a world leader with nuclear capabilities. however i see the moon generally as a place of great vulnerability.. i think if he had the moon in pisces he would be more likely to focus on other things.. the bellicose nature of this fellows leadership style suggests to me that moon in scorpio in combo with mars in aquarius is a more likely candidate then the moon in pisces..

on a political note - i am not for regime change. it is hard to work with countries that demand isolation for others, however some countries with much more power and clout haven't done a lot to ease other countries fear of invasion or the making of war for all sorts of false reasons. cooler heads need to prevail.

it might be worth pointing out that the fact march 8th north korea made the announcement it did, was largely connected to the un resolution 2094 made on march 7th.. http://usun.state.gov/briefing/statements/205698.htm

on the one hand it would make sense to impose these resolutions.. but a bigger question i have is why aren't nuclear weapons and tests being universally banned with the leading countries at the un taking a lead in doing this, as opposed to essentially saying 'we have these weapons, but we don't want anyone else to have them'? it seems hypocritical, not to mention if you don't have them you are much more likely to be invaded. the countries representing the un security council needs to show some vision and leadership as opposed to these types of actions which i think are counter productive and put less powerful countries more on edge.
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varuna2



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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 7:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:


it might be worth pointing out that the fact march 8th north korea made the announcement it did, was largely connected to the un resolution 2094 made on march 7th.. http://usun.state.gov/briefing/statements/205698.htm

on the one hand it would make sense to impose these resolutions.. but a bigger question i have is why aren't nuclear weapons and tests being universally banned with the leading countries at the un taking a lead in doing this, as opposed to essentially saying 'we have these weapons, but we don't want anyone else to have them'? it seems hypocritical, not to mention if you don't have them you are much more likely to be invaded. the countries representing the un security council needs to show some vision and leadership as opposed to these types of actions which i think are counter productive and put less powerful countries more on edge.


"The UN officially came into existence on 24 October 1945 upon ratification of the Charter by the five then-permanent members of the Security Council—France, the Republic of China, the Soviet Union, the United Kingdom and the United States" (wikipedia).

"There are 15 members of the Security Council. This includes five veto-wielding permanent members—China, France, Russia, the United Kingdom, and the United States—based on the great powers that were the victors of World War II" (wikipedia).

There are 193 members of the UN but only 5 of them have any say in what actually happens, and the decisions made. The UN is the greatest farce ever invented. On the day that N Korea and Iran and every other country are given an equal voice and power as the so-called Security Council, on that day the UN will be worthy of its name, until then it is a sham and a tool for control of the earth by the few.

Remember this statesman? Watch him tear up the UN charter as he speaks at the UN, in one of the classical moments of UN historical moments:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKMyY2V0J0Y

What would you people do if the UN and US had warships on your border and made acts of war (sanctions are an act of war) against your country.

What would it be like If N Korea had warships patrolling the US or UK and then had the audacity to pretend they were "peacekeeping". What would it be like if N Korea gave sanctions to the totalitarian members of the UN so-called Security Council?

N Korea sets of 3 bombs and the "Security" Council of the UN has set off about 2500 bombs between them.

I would advise a study of texts such as the Chuang tzu to better understand this situation of domination of the world under the disguise of humanitarianism.
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Andrew Bevan



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Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2013 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james wrote:
hi andrew,

first off - thanks for commenting! kudos on your age point technique for isolating a possible time for concern on thatcher as well. it reminds me of a saturn transit applied a certain way, but after going and reading on your site, i see it isn't that.. it would be nice to see you demonstrate it on someone else in advance here at skyscript.

Well, my material on the Age Point has been on the offering for 20 years. I have lectured on the subject in Norway and Warsaw, Poland, but applications to the AA and UAC have just not reached up in competition with other highly qualified applicants. Never mind. The work is not in bookform, but the introduction is available for free at astronor.com. One application and accomplishment of the technique was the letter addressed the Norwegian Crown Prince Harald in March 1990 that correctly and contructively advised him to take care of his father in June of that year. King Olav V suffered from a stroke in the last week of May and Harald sat as Crown Prince Regent from the beginning of June until Olav V passed away in January the following year. (Link)

In reference to the current topic, the build up in North-Korea, one of my major concerns lies to the chart of Kim Il-sung born April 15. 1912. He passed away on July 8. 1994. This is the grandfather of Kim Jong-un and it is obvious that the bond between Kim Jong-un and his grandfather is very strong. Some analysts fear Kim Jong-un may launch an attack on South Korea or some other target on April 15. in honour and celebration of his grandfathers memory. Posthumously, Kim Il-sung's chart may still be active, in which case his natal Sun is in the 25th degree of Aries, and Mars will be transitting this degree in the firstcoming weekend, April 13-14., which is ahead of and in preparation or the 15th.

But what is equally worrying is that it will be 101 years since Kim Il-sung's birth and the Solar Agepoint directed in his chart will reach 19° Leo. I have several times pointed out (at Skyscript) how this degree, which is trine the exaltation degree of the Sun, has been assosiated with some of the biggies - and featured in some of the largest earthquakes of modern time. In another fashion, if referred to the chart of Princess Diana, it is apparant that her AgePoint (taken from the ascendant) was conjunct 19°Leo at the time she married Prince Charles. This is one of the most significant, yet also critical moments of her life. The other occasion being when she died in the car crash in Paris on Aug 31. 1997 with her AgePoint 11° Taurus. This is the antiscia degree of 19° Leo, so the theme of crises and fatality was emphasised once again.

Applying the AP-technique to Kim Jong Un, if applying the 1983 chart then his SAP (Solar AgePoint) now is directed to 15° Cancer, ruled by the Moon in Scorpio conjunt Saturn, which is in the degree of the Moon's fall. This is why I believe the 1983 chart to be the most dangerous. If using the 1984 chart then the SAP is 21° Cancer and still is disposed by the Moon. The Moon is square Uranus in Sagittarius and may make a lot of noise, but I still think the Moon in Pisces is less dangerous than in Scorpio.

I haven't wanted to get too deeply into the AgePoint at Skyscript, because this didn't feel right. I've been working the technique for 28 years and felt more like something that should be presented at a conference. So for reasons I have been keeping things at home and sticking to the job. If it works, the technique will come around with time and there will be time to pick up on details in the future. The main concern now is the tension in the Korean peninsula with the possible consequences this may have and how the problem may be resolved. It requires a few cool heads up on the top somewhere, or else a situation could develop that could be hard to handle.
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james_m



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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi varuna and andrew
-andrew i will respond to you in a separate post. thanks.

varuna,

the un has meant a lot of things to a lot of different people. i agree that some have used it for the wrong reasons as you emphasize. it is interesting that when it serves the purposes of a country it is all good, but when it doesn't a media campaign is started to say how useless the un is.. obviously some countries aren't interested in working together with others, or only in so far as they are able to have more leverage/power over others.. there is nothing 'humanitarian' about that. it is easy for some to defeat the greater purpose of others. do we decide to no longer have hold high ideals becuase of the mechanisms of a few? i have read chang tzu and lao tze.. i enjoy what they have to say. what do you think is the best way to serve the interests of all countries on the world stage at this point in history?

here is a chart for the un. immediately below is the approx time of resolution 2094 on march 7th prior to the increase in some of this rhetoric. it is interesting to note the position of saturn at 11 scorpio in a 135 to mars at 26 pisces while both connect back to the natal pluto at 11 leo. the approx position of the moon at 24 sits in opposition to the mars/saturn conjunction in the un chart as well. one does wonder of what benefit it serves to impose sanctions on countries and we have had recent examples where it has been used to starve or deprave innocent people who happen to live in countries where the leader isn't going along with the un agenda


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james_m



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Posted: Wed Apr 10, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andrew,

thanks for more info on the age point technique. are you making a prediction with it here off kim jong un's 83 chart, or just speaking generally on the likelihood of an acknowledgement of his new leadership and the anniversary of his grandfather?

regarding the possibility of some sort of show on the anniversary of kim jong uns grandfathers birthday april 15, that often seems to happen so it is a good guess to suggest something might happen on the 15th as far as that goes..

from foreign policy "Based on intelligence we and the Americans have collected, it's highly likely that North Korea will launch a missile," South Korean Foreign Minister Yun Byung-se told a parliamentary hearing Wednesday. "Such a possibility could materialize at any time from now."

According to South Korean military officials, the North has in recent days moved several kinds of missiles -- including Musudan, Rodong, and Scud varieties -- to the country's north east coast, where they can easily be fired off in tandem."

and "In the past, North Korea has often timed missile tests to important holidays and milestones in the country's history. Several such dates will occur in the next few days, including the anniversary of Kim Jong Un's ascent to power and the birthdate next Monday of his grandfather, Kim Il Sung."

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/
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