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Lot of Sexual Activity
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 12:18 pm    Post subject: Lot of Sexual Activity Reply with quote

While I was using the 'Random Page' feature of Astrodatabank to test myself, I came across this guy this morning: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Einhorn,_Ira

I thought his chart was worth mentioning since his life exhibits two of the things being discussed in the other forum recently: overcoming and this Lot of Sexual Activity. Here is the chart:



I will save you all from the majority of my delineation and go to what I found to be dominant in the chart (in the sense of the native's life, not the technique!). I found this native to be Choleric/Melancholic and I noted that the Mars/Venus combination was culminating while overcoming the ASC degree. This combination is also being received by Mercury in the 8th, with Mars being in mutual reception.

I was able to deduce that the native would be involved in sexual violence or violence towards women not only because the conjoining culminated at his birth but because it was determined towards his own Being and his relationships through lordship and aspect. I think this is something not mentioned in the ancient texts but it is expected to be understood by the authors. Not everyone who has Venus and Mars in conjunction are going to be sexual fiends, the planets have to be determined towards those significations for that to be so, in my opinon. Here they are. If you notice that the ASC is completely ruled by Mercury, Venus and Mars (also the Moon but she is quite ineffectual being cadent and not aspecting while only being a triplicity lord). For me, this highlights this rather nasty configuration as being dominant in the native's life. Mercury in the 8th ruling the ASC will show someone who is very interested in other's money and according to his bio, he eventually married a weathy woman in France.

Mars and Venus here suggest someone highly-sexed due to their rulerships of the signs rising and setting. Due to these two overcoming the ASC, I thought it safe to say that this would be a major part of his life with the violent aspect of out-of-sect Mars being especially dominant due to it appyling to the ASC. This opened up further investigation via the Valens marriage lot which I have named the Lot of Sexual Activity. Taken from the Sun to Venus and from the ASC, it is placed at 19 Libra here, being applied to by Saturn in fall and ruled by this same Venus in the 10th conjoined Mars. I thought it pretty safe to say he was violent towards women and oversexed. From his bio:

Quote:
A graduate of the University of Philadelphia, he lived near his alma mater, exercising his overpowering ego and domineering, sometimes violent relationships with women. There were two episodes in which he attacked women who rejected him, strangling one to unconsciousness and a few years later, hitting another over the head with a soda bottle. He wrote in his journal, "Violence often marks the end of a relationship."


Quote:
On 10/07/1972 he met Holly Maddux (b. 5/26/1947, Tyler, TX) in Philadelphia, a striking blonde and former cheerleader of her Texas high school. She was finding her way after college when she first visited him. He later boasted that "they were having sex an hour later." She moved in for the next five years before leaving him in 9/08/1977. Einhorn pleaded and threatened until she returned the following day. The next night they went to a movie and it was the last that anyone ever saw Holly.


So he had some history of violence and sexual excess which culminated in him murdering a young girl and leaving her in his closet. The bio then goes onto state that he went on the run after this while having at least two girlfriends and one wife before being caught and convicted around 25 years after he committed this particular crime.

I think it is clear to see how this combination dominated his Being (that is his ASC, not the chart itself, even though it does by culminating) and also how the Lot mentioned can be used to solidify the prediction of sexual devianceand/or violence already suggested elsewhere in the nativity.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi konrad,

thanks for sharing.. you picked a doozie of a person with this character.. wow..

i think it is a good example of overcoming with the venus/mars square ascendant..

i am not sure what indian astrology says about the ruler of the ascendant in the 8th, but i believe it has some bearing on this chart for the obvious reasons. also i have found saturn in the 8th to be an especially challenging position generally speaking.. found in this chart in a wide conjunction to the ruler of the ascendant, only amplifies the focus of this chart towards sexuality and if i can be so bold - taking advantage of others for all the wrong reasons. saturn is in aries as well..

i don't know if you have solar fire, but for the indian chart it also gives choleric temperament.. if you do his chart in tropical it is all balanced according to the software.. i wonder about how relevant the temperament topic is given the different results one gets by using a different zodiac, but i appreciate your keen interest in this topic. thanks for sharing.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi konrad,

thanks for sharing.. you picked a doozie of a person with this character.. wow..

i think it is a good example of overcoming with the venus/mars square ascendant..

i am not sure what indian astrology says about the ruler of the ascendant in the 8th, but i believe it has some bearing on this chart for the obvious reasons. also i have found saturn in the 8th to be an especially challenging position generally speaking.. found in this chart in a wide conjunction to the ruler of the ascendant, only amplifies the focus of this chart towards sexuality and if i can be so bold - taking advantage of others for all the wrong reasons. saturn is in aries as well..

i don't know if you have solar fire, but for the indian chart it also gives choleric temperament.. if you do his chart in tropical it is all balanced according to the software.. i wonder about how relevant the temperament topic is given the different results one gets by using a different zodiac, but i appreciate your keen interest in this topic. thanks for sharing.


Hi James,

I am no expert on temperament, it is just something I am discovering more and more about but I wouldn't trust a software program to map out the accurate delineation for a native. the zodiac shouldn't make too much difference either as the planets' phase from the Sun is the same in either one.

You're right though, this guy was a piece of work but he must have had some charm since he managed to get all of these women to fall for him.
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't forget SN in 7th with 7th lord.

In Indian astrology this is called:

THere is Guru-Chandala (Jupiter-SN or NN conjunction)yoga in 7th house:

Quote:
This combination in the 7th house will bring chaos in the married life of the individual. Many secret clandestine affairs by the partner is indicated due to these combination. The native may not get a pious partner. However if Jupiter is benefic and receives benefic aspects then the life of the native is inclined to spirituality and religious activities.


http://www.astrocamp.com/guru-chandala-yoga-in-astrology.html

A bit metaphorical but the Mars-venus conjunction takes place in Gemini (Mithuna) look at the synonym here:

http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&beginning=0+&tinput=+mithuna&trans=Translate&direction=AU

http://spokensanskrit.de/index.php?script=HK&beginning=0+&tinput=chandala&trans=Translate&direction=AU


BTW, Hitler too had a Guru-Chandala yoga in 3rd house.

Quote:
If this combination occurs in the 3rd house then the native is poisonous in his speech. He will be very peculiar in his thoughts. He will never think twice to betray others and climb the ladder of opportunity. If Jupiter is malefic then the native spreads a lot of hatred around him. These individuals are very courageous and are successful in the fields where courage is required.

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james_m



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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi konrad,

martin gave me a similar lecture on the use of software to which i agreed with him as well.. i am no expert on temperament either but know that depending on the ingredients you put into the cake, you will get a different result.. as i understand it the signs do make a difference and much of what i have read on temperament is based off a seasonal approach which doesn't get picked up the same in sidereal.. cheers james
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 10:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi konrad,

martin gave me a similar lecture on the use of software to which i agreed with him as well.. i am no expert on temperament either but know that depending on the ingredients you put into the cake, you will get a different result.. as i understand it the signs do make a difference and much of what i have read on temperament is based off a seasonal approach which doesn't get picked up the same in sidereal.. cheers james


There's no lecture, James, it is just a common sense approach that software cannot intergrate and interpret as our own mind does.

I know I am not alone in thinking that seasonal considerations are unimportant in temperament considerations and, besides, you can still use seasonal indications with a Sidereal zodiac, they don't go away because of its use. I have some ideas of combining the Tropical and Sidereal zodiac, I don't believe they have to be mutually exclusive. Another of my ideas is the Moon's phase making her hot and dry or hot and wet, I don't believe this to be true, but that isn't too important here.

Thanks for your contribution, Pankajdueby, I will read it more thoroughly tomorrow morning.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 12:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Konrad wrote:


There's no lecture, James, it is just a common sense approach that software cannot intergrate and interpret as our own mind does.



okay, i guess this means you had to tell me as you figured i wasn't bright enough to know that!!

check out dorian gieseler greenbaums book called 'temperament' astrology's forgotten key, if you haven't already..
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
Konrad wrote:


There's no lecture, James, it is just a common sense approach that software cannot intergrate and interpret as our own mind does.



okay, i guess this means you had to tell me as you figured i wasn't bright enough to know that!!

check out dorian gieseler greenbaums book called 'temperament' astrology's forgotten key, if you haven't already..


Listen, James, this is the last I am going to say of this. If I thought you were stupid I would say so. You seemed to be using the software as your standard of what this guy's temperament was in either zodiac, I wouldn't do that. That's all.

As for the book, thanks for the recommendation.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

konrad,

what do you think is more important - a lot or a house? i know it sounds like a trick question, but it isn't. i was re-reading your original post where you mention valens lot of marriage and how it is in opposition to saturn. the reason i ask is for the reason i mentioned earlier - saturn in the 8th seems to have a problem with sex and i think of sex as having a direct connection with the 8th house and sign.

my problem with lots are a bit more complex. there are a lot of lots for marriage based on my read.. how does one decide which one to use? page 68 in al biruni's the book of instruction in the elements of the art of astrology" astroamercia publication has 5 or so depending on whether it is a man or women's chart..
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 5:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
konrad,

what do you think is more important - a lot or a house? i know it sounds like a trick question, but it isn't. i was re-reading your original post where you mention valens lot of marriage and how it is in opposition to saturn. the reason i ask is for the reason i mentioned earlier - saturn in the 8th seems to have a problem with sex and i think of sex as having a direct connection with the 8th house and sign.

my problem with lots are a bit more complex. there are a lot of lots for marriage based on my read.. how does one decide which one to use? page 68 in al biruni's the book of instruction in the elements of the art of astrology" astroamercia publication has 5 or so depending on whether it is a man or women's chart..


Practically, I see lots as fine-tuning significations of the house they are linked to though I am aware of some philosophical differences between houses and lots but not being a subscriber to Project Hindsight or able to read Greek, I'm not sure what they are said to be by those with more knowledge than me. In my own practice, as I said, I use them to narrow down the significations of the houses and their lords but I am noticing subtle differences in how the lots manifest compared to houses. I don't really want to go into it just now as I don't have the idea fully-formed.

As for the number of lots, I try to use the Hellenistic versions as I find them but I will test things out, just like you have to do with everything you read in the texts.

I don't see the 8th as anything to do with sex and I didn't want to comment fully on Saturn aspecting this lot as I suspect some perversions but I cannot prove it as the bio isn't great. I wanted to more focus on the sexual excess and violence which was in his bio.
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pankajdubey



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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 6:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

any particular reason why you decided to call Valens" blessed lot of marriage into lot of sexual activity.
sex outside of marriage was not unknown or looked badly upon in Valen"s time
Yet valens gave venus to wife.
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks konrad. i am intrigued by your comment you see no association with the 8th house and sexuality.. if you'd like to comment on any views you have on this further, i'd be interested. it is my own observation that there is a tie in. then again, i associate the 8th house and sign with death too - sex being like a small death of sorts..
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 8:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
thanks konrad. i am intrigued by your comment you see no association with the 8th house and sexuality.. if you'd like to comment on any views you have on this further, i'd be interested. it is my own observation that there is a tie in. then again, i associate the 8th house and sign with death too - sex being like a small death of sorts..

Konrad isn't alone in this; the connection between the 8th house and sex (in the sense of sexual attraction, sexual activity or sexual pleasure) definitely didn't exist in astrology prior to the 19th century, and probably not prior to the 20th. In traditional melothesia, the 8th house and Scorpio were both connected with the genitals and anus; but coupling was considered a 7th house matter.
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Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Martin
Is using the 12th for "bed pleasures" strictly Indian? Or 5th for amorous encounters? I think Houck for example (but some Indians as well, I think) looks to 7 for more partner-type relationships, 5th sometimes for the recreational side of sex/flirting, and 12th for the more escapist, addictive or kinky stuff.
Graham
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james_m



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Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

well the chart konrad posted does have moon in the 12th, and the 5th happens to be ruled by saturn.. the ruler of the 7th is in the 8th too fwiw
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Einhorn,_Ira

i still maintain there is a strong connection with the 8th and sex, but it might have more to do with emotional factors that play into the dynamic and i don't know if anyone wants to talk about it here anyway.

i guess it was sigmund frued that made the tie in between sex and death more popular.. here is a link that discusses the connection between sex and death..
http://www.deathreference.com/Py-Se/Sex-and-Death-Connection-of.html
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