moon in scorpio

1
i am curious to get some feedback on this position of the moon. i have always been more curious about it as i have this lunar position. however much i try to understand it, or rationalize it, i still don't really get it or see it.

the moon belongs in the water (and earth) trigon.. the moon and mars are planets of the same sect. apparently moon in scorpio still gets poor positioning regardless..

maybe it is different in a womens chart then a mans chart. i have thought about that a lot and observed some truth in this. perhaps as i have a nocturnal chart it is different then if i had a diurnal one.

the moon is presently on the exaltation degree of 3 taurus where i live. i thought it was a good time to ask this question! this doesn't have to be a confessional, but if someone has some insight into this position they would like to share, i would appreciate hearing about it.

robert hand also has this position and i recall him mentioning that the position wasn't as bad as it was cracked up to be some time ago in his book 'horoscope symbols' although i am unable to find the quote at the moment. maybe it was in 'essays on astrology'..

my viewpoint on moon in scorpio is coloured by my experience which is subjective. i have known many people with this moon position and i have known a number of people with moon in taurus too. i don't know that moon in taurus is all that it is cracked up to be and i am not convinced that the moon in scorpio is all that it is supposed to be based on the general astrological theories that i have read over the years. perhaps others here have some insight into this position that i am not able to perceive.. thanks!

2
robert hands quote from page 230 'horoscope symbols' :

"The Moon is often said to be severely debilitated in Scorpio, but I am not inclined to agree. A Scorpio Moon may be difficult for others to understand, but it is at least in touch with its own feelings. It is certainly not a Moon inclined to repress emotion."

3
Like James I am a Moon in Scorpio too. I happen to know a few other prominent posters here have this Moon sign too but will they reveal it? :wink:
"The Moon is often said to be severely debilitated in Scorpio, but I am not inclined to agree. A Scorpio Moon may be difficult for others to understand, but it is at least in touch with its own feelings. It is certainly not a Moon inclined to repress emotion."


I looked at Hand's chart and noticed he is a night birth with Moon in Scorpio, In general terms I think Moon in Scorpio is easier at night since both the Moon and its ruler are in sect. Plus Mars is in triplicity at night. Moon in Scorpio in a day chart is a more difficult placement since the Moon is not only in its sign of fall but the Moon and its ruler Mars are out of sect. I should know as I have Moon in Scorpio in a day chart. :(

Interestingly though a few successful politicians have Moon in Scorpio in the day. Jimmy Carter, Mario Cuomo and Mitt Romney to name a few.

Interesting point about gender. Some ancient authors suggest the feminine planets work better in women's charts. Even modern astrology seems to reflect this by suggesting the Moon often replaces the Sun as the dominant luminary. But does this reflect womens experience?

Its always hard to be objective about your own chart and probably no area more than our emotive Moon. Plus there are lots of factors to consider beyond sign placement. For example house placement and phase to the Sun.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

4
mark

i agree with the idea that the moon is a more subjective spot in the chart, possibly due it being an energy we identify with in a less conscious and more automatic way.. perhaps this is another reason it is said to have a connection to birth and the first years of a persons life. i have this placement rising within a few degrees of my ascendant- more self disclosure. i have always thought that their is more of an interest in psychology with this placement.. what are the motives behind my own or others actions- which is a slippery slope that can really activate the imagination, another word i associate with the moon - imagination. i think the moon can highlight a part of a chart where there is greater sensitivity as well.

it is interesting if you think of the first half of the zodiac aries to virgo - representing the personal, or more individual, with the later half representing the more social and universal. i don't know if this is something they teach in astrology or everyone will agree with this simplification, but the moon in cancer and in taurus would seem to be more focused on the personal, or looking after one's individual needs. perhaps moon in cancer is a bit different in that the element of water changes this, but i certainly think of moon in taurus as more centered on their own needs and often either oblivious or unaware of how it impacts the needs on those around them. i am thinking the moon represents our 'needs' in saying all this. perhaps part of the reason the moon is thought to not do so well in the sign scorpio, or capricorn - 2 signs in the later half of the zodiac has to do with an emphasis on others, as opposed to oneself. whereas moon in the 1st half of the zodiac might be thought to stand up for itself, or go with the basic looking after ones needs that i think is part of a working description for the moon for me.. as you can see i have a lot of theories, lol.

the sign scorpio seems to want to dig deeper on the emotional level. perhaps the idea of processing moods and feelings that are a part of our interaction with others is something that the moon has to do regardless of where the moon is placed by sign.. water goes places that the other elements wouldn't go - specifically - the lowest places, lol.. i do think moon in scorpios tend to have to process feelings or emotions that can be quite challenging and while everyone has to do this, i think it might be unique for moon in scorpios.. i am not sure how much of this is my own path, verses the general picture for moon in scorpio.

aside from the few politicians you mentioned, there are going to be a lot of people with moon in scorpio, some famous and some not so famous. i was looking at steven spielbergs chart with this same position just yesterday.. sometimes you can flick these positions into libra using sidereal, but aside from that bugaboo i think we have countless people to consider with this placement that probably tell us more about it, if we could separate it from the rest of the chart!

a number of factors will alter the basic moon in scorpio position as mark has mentioned. each one must be viewed individually, but it doesn't shake the generally negative image that is conjured up thanks to a number of factors which i continue to want to understand better..

5
Hi James,

A few Moon in Scorpio celebrities:

Jules Verne, Alfred Hitchcock, Julian Assange, Carl Weber, Herbert Spencer, Edward Heath, Mae West, Charlie Chaplin, George Harrison, Nelson Mandela, Natalie Imbruglia, Ricky Gervais, Beyonce Knowles, Raphael of Urbino, Dick Clark, Eddie Murphy, Lady Gaga, Chris Evert, Roger Federer, David Frost, Robbie Williams, Bruce Lee, Raymond Moody, Dennis Weaver, Jimmy Carter, Mariah Carey, Patrick Duffy, Nicolae Ceausescu, Ben Affleck, James Maxton, Clement Atlee, Alanis Morisette, Warren Beatty, Tallulah Bankhead, James Dean, Bette Midler, Elizabeth Hurley, Elizabeth Taylor, Julie Andrews, Marcia Cross, Robert Hand, Sharon Stone, Ennio Morriconne, Richie Havens, Tori Spelling, Barbara Castle, Mario Lanza, Steve Martin, Placido Domingo, Steven Spielberg, Telly Savalas, Michael Hutchence, Susan Hayward, Denise Richards, Bjork, Mila Kunis, Phil Collins, Pat Benatar, Minnie Driver, Jennifer Lopez, Alan Rickman, Scarlett Johansson, David Hilbert, Orlando Bloom, Bono, Lady Gaga, Myra Hindley, Bob Marley, Avril Lavigne, Greta Scacchi, Hayden Christensen, Gisele Bundchen, Shannen Doherty, Merle Oberon, Linda Goodman, Laura Linney, Jenna Jameson, Ryan Reynolds, Adam Levine, Jason Statham, Elijah Wood, Matthew Perry, Mark Wahlberg, Lisa Kudrow, Raquel Welch, Edie Sedgwick, Natalie Imbruglia, Johnny Cash, Anna Nicole Smith, Mitt Romney, Owen Wilson, Priscilla Presley, Rod Stewart, Brittany Murphy, Whoopi Goldberg, Phil Collins, Miley Cyrus, Roger Waters, Snoop Dogg, Georgia O'Keeffe, Hilarie Burton, Mario Cuomo, Eric Clapton, John Cusack, Stanley Kubrick, Lauren Conrad, Linda McCartney, Harry Houdini, Adam Brody, Craig Ferguson, Rosanna Arquette, Cyndi Lauper, Travis Pastrana, Raven-Symone, Miles Davis, Shaquille O'Neal, James Lafferty, Francis Ford Coppola, Mark Zuckerberg, John Steinbeck, Kate Moss, Ellen Pompeo, Barry Gibb, Hermann Goering, Timothy Dalton, John Wayne, Truman Capote, David Schwimmer, Jenna Bush, Michael Bubl?, Jeremy Kyle, Georges Eads, Molly Ringwald, Jade Jagger, Will Ferrell, Casey Affleck.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Mon Feb 18, 2013 2:05 pm, edited 10 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

6
thanks mark,

what do you think matters more - moon in a particular sign, or aspects that the moon makes with the other planets?

i know it is a general question, and... it is not a trap to get you to say something stupid.. you can leave that up to me!!

i know you can't separate the 2, but i tend to think the aspects to the moon are more important then the sign position.. anyone else agree or disagree?

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i know you can't separate the 2, but i tend to think the aspects to the moon are more important then the sign position.. anyone else agree or disagree?

More than any other planet the Moon is especially influenced by its applying and separating aspects.

See this article by Deborah Houlding:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/moon2.html

Although the focus is horary and electional astrology the basic points are valid in nativities too.

Nevertheless, I think the sign placement is very important too along with phase to the Sun.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

8
hi mark,

i thought you might not want to commit one way of the other to my question.. however, you give more weight to the aspects the moon makes that can sometimes be overlooked, especially in the essential and accidental dignity/debility scoring.. those systems don't seem to factor sect into their equations either as i know it..

thanks for sharing the article.. it focuses on a lot of history, no subjectivity like my comments, lol and especially the idea of 'void of course'... i found the example of 'another ship' by lilly quite interesting regarding how far back he went and how he defines voc in that example..

here are a few quotes from the article that i want to comment on.

"Ancient astrologers recognized the conjunction, square and opposition of the Sun and Moon as unfortunate periods, full of tension; and claimed that when the lights of heaven are in such a relationship there is a state of imbalance in all mundane and human affairs. There is no shortage of modern statistics to support this assertion."

it is interesting how in indian astrology the full moon is seen as the most auspicious occasion.. it is also interesting how in hellenistic astrology having the part of fortune or spirit in an angle is considered positive.. anyone born on the new or full moon has this automatically, so i am not sure how that fits with the ancient astrologers viewpoint on these moon phases.. if someone is born where the 2 axis are relatively square to one another those born on the first and last quarter will also have the pof/pos in the midheavan, or ic pivots too..

further down in the article
"If you find the Moon void of all the planets, none of them aspects it, and none is in the ascendant or aspecting the ascendant, then this native is void of good in livelihood, possesses pain and hardship in the pursuit of what he needs"
- Dorotheus [16]


"The 10th [way in which the Moon can be afflicted] is when she is void of course, that is, not joined to any planet by body or aspect"
- Bonatus [17]


A good deal of controversy surrounds the correct definition of a void of course Moon."

it seems from the time of dorotheus to bonatus, the language gets watered down. maybe that is just my read of these 2 quotes back to back..

a lot of the article was devoted to void of course moons and the dilemma of ascertaining just what that is. it seems the folks who work with traditional horary techniques have a different approach then a number of modern astrologers who have adopted non-ptolemaic aspects, or even more avante-garde - harmonics and midpoints. maybe this is why modern astrology doesn't talk about void of course or peregrine planets as much as traditional astrology, in particular horary astrology. then there are the modern planets, or not which will lessen the window of opportunity to find examples of voc..

if i can read between the lines of your response, it sounds as though you are saying the aspects a moon makes counts for a lot and perhaps a lot more then is given consideration when just assessing the sign position of the moon.. that is my view at any rate.. i think a moon applying to a malefic is very different then one applying to a benefic and would go so far as to so it can really alter the feel and flavour of the moon sign regardless what the sign is. thanks for the conversation..

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I have a Moon in Scorpio too.

I was taught Natal Astrology by a monk (tropical based )astrology.

In this system the person has to assess each planet separately

to know whether its Strong or Weak and
Good or Bad

According to that system...

A planet is strong or weak according to essential dignities..
and planet is good or bad according to accidental dignities..

Moon in Socprio is a weak Moon, however, it may be either good or bad...but thats a separate issue...
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/

Moon in Scorpio

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Mark wrote:Like James I am a Moon in Scorpio too. I happen to know a few other prominent posters here have this Moon sign too but will they reveal it? :wink:
"The Moon is often said to be severely debilitated in Scorpio, but I am not inclined to agree. A Scorpio Moon may be difficult for others to understand, but it is at least in touch with its own feelings. It is certainly not a Moon inclined to repress emotion."


...In general terms I think Moon in Scorpio is easier at night since both the Moon and its ruler are in sect. Plus Mars is in triplicity at night.

Moon in Scorpio in a day chart is a more difficult placement since the Moon is not only in its sign of fall but the Moon and its ruler Mars are out of sect. I should know as I have Moon in Scorpio in a day chart. :(

Mark
In dealing with Moon in Scorpio's, I agree with Mark, a Scorpio Moon in a diurnal chart, can come across as very "stinging", sharp, wounding with their intensity and passion behind their words, which they may or may not realize. Whereas, the Nocturnal Moon in Scorpio's have a bit more compassion for the other person, it comes across a little softer, and not quite as biting, stinging with the scorpions tail.

Just a few observations from real people.

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Horatio wrote: According to that system...

A planet is strong or weak according to essential dignities..
and planet is good or bad according to accidental dignities..

Moon in Socprio is a weak Moon, however, it may be either good or bad...but thats a separate issue...
horatio,

thanks for commenting. i think the moon is a good symbol for weakness generally..it forms a most important relationship with the sun, a good symbol for strength. i think this is where the connection to our needs and habits ties in.. we need something when we are weak and don't have it - like a baby that is born, or an adult that can't figure out how to break there habits, good or bad whether it be they haven't got the insight, inclination or determination to break them, or they are content to coast and accept what is given them without question.. in that regard the moon is weak, regardless of the sign.

you have my curiousity on the last part of your comment - "it may be either good or bad".. pray tell us how the teacher monk defined that part of the equation for you, or have you surpassed the teacher already?
zoomaster wrote:I for one am suspicious of anyone who attempts to sugarcoat debilitated planets. In my experience with astrology, the pessimistic route is usually the most accurate.
zoomaster,

thanks for sharing.. by all means if 'fire and brimstone' astrology is your thing, don't question where any of these ideas on ''debilitated'', or dignified planets comes from.. just accept what others tell you, or even better - what your experience tells you. i question rules, bur realize there are lots of folks in the world who like to accept them without question.. hopefully that doesn't come across as sugarcoated, lol..

morning sun,

thanks for sharing your perspective on the difference between a diurnal and nocturnal moon in scorpio. i am curious if you have noticed any difference in men verses women's charts? i would like to ask you as well the question that mark gently circumvented - do you think the aspects the moon makes are more important then the sign position of the moon? simple question, but no takers so far!!!

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you have my curiousity on the last part of your comment - "it may be either good or bad".. pray tell us how the teacher monk defined that part of the equation for you, or have you surpassed the teacher already?
He taught me his system completely :) and sorry for calling Moon a planet. luminary


A planet/luminary/body becomes a good or bad according to the aspects.

In aspect with friends or benefics...Good
In aspect with enemies or malefics...bad

There is no combustion, or cadency in his natal system because according to him cadency/angularity, time ascendant and combustion apply in Horary Astrology only.

So, my moon in Scorpio is in trine aspect with Jupiter which makes her weak but good
Regards

Morpheus

https://horusastropalmist.wordpress.com/