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A few celebrities
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5147
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
Quote:
Since around Kepler. I know about Lily but I dont use horary


Ok well my advice is stick with what inspires and makes sense to you. Its clear hellenistic astrology doesn't appeal to you so rather than stirring up a hornets nest of bad feeling here and being accused of trolling I would avoid criticising techniques that you dont practice or fully understand.

I dont do Uranian or Huber astrology myself but I equally dont see the point making statements challenging their astrological approach as I neither practice it or find their methodology that appealing.

If you think the MC is all there is to eminence in the horoscope then good luck to you. You can delineate away like most modern astrologers to your hearts content. However, your not going to get any support on the traditional forum.

This forum exists to share ideas amongst those coming from a basically traditional perspective. Its not a place to constantly seek to challenge traditional astrology. Of course we have our disagreements. However, we come from a shared desire to share, learn and listen. If you dont think that traditional astrology is right thats fine. All you have to do is look elsewhere for your astrological inspiration.

damon wrote:
Quote:
There must be a difference betwen eminence through arts or politics,law etc otherwise anything goes
.

I think you are confusing two different things. Eminence or fame is different from identifying profession or occupation in the chart. There are clearly different 'occupational signatures' in a chart. People can become famous for reasons other than their occupation.

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:21 pm; edited 1 time in total
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont think MC is all.
I think several planets in a sign or house are a positive sign given that the person is obssessed with a certain area of life,which can eventually lead to fame. This apparently isnt mentioned in the oldst astrology but it is logical and is just one example.
i have a cousin who is not a celebrity yet he gives seminars on Dyslexia around the world.
His MC lord,Sun is in 6th house. But Asc lord is in 9th
So,it depends on what is meant by eminence
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon wrote,
Quote:
I dont think MC is all.

Ok

Damon wrote:
Quote:
I think several planets in a sign or house are a positive sign given that the person is obssessed with a certain area of life,which can eventually lead to fame. This apparently isnt mentioned in the oldst astrology but it is logical and is just one example.


That is something any astrologer would be interested in.

Quote:
i have a cousin who is not a celebrity yet he gives seminars on Dyslexia around the world. His MC lord,Sun is in 6th house. But Asc lord is in 9th. So,it depends on what is meant by eminence


I suggest you take a look at this old thread that discusses the traditional approach to fame or eminence. Astrojin does one of his typically brilliant posts and summarises many of the methods used . As I said above though eminence is totally different from finding astrological signatures for occupation or profession.

Judging by your interests in Kepler and Lilly you will probably relate better to the ideas of a late renaissance astrologer like Morin so Tom's comments will probably make more sense to you:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4975&sid=d79827b625c2218db7e6a56cfd8d86b3

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly


Last edited by Mark on Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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damon



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Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks Thumbs up
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horarcek



Joined: 24 Jul 2005
Posts: 150
Location: Slovenia

Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,
this is useful, too:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/6956746/Five-Pillars-of-Fate-Fortune-and-Destiny-in-Astrology

Trojan
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
Tzadde wrote:
Well, what are you trying to say? Do you want to ask something?


i dont see eminence signs in those charts


I know this has been asked before, but I don't think you answered so I'll ask again.

As this is the traditional forum, in your opinion what would show, traditionally, eminence in a given chart?
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damon



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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I did answer that to Mark, Paul

Regards
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
I did answer that to Mark, Paul

Regards


Hi Damon

Actually I only found this quote:
"At least in traditional astrology you can only be famous with a strong MC or its ruler,theoretically."

Is this what you mean - just a strong MC or ruler?
You say this is from around Kepler. Could you cite a source for this in the tradition? I'm curious what author says you can only be famous with a strong MC or ruler.
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damon



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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No,see the previous page.MC 10th house rulers, lots and their rulers and to some extent 5th house
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Paul
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Posted: Tue Jan 15, 2013 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="damon"]No,see the previous page.MC 10th house rulers, lots and their rulers and to some extent 5th house[/quote]

Ah okay, the sentence following it seemed to separate this from ranking of fame where you say it's only the MC ruler.

I would say that it would be a bit simplistic to say that this is [i]the[/i] traditional way of looking at eminence. I see Mark has linked to another thread though so that one may elucidate the issue better. I didn't read the entire thread through, just flicked through the first page.
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Kenneth Johnson



Joined: 12 Aug 2012
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Location: San Luis Obispo, CA

Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am a jyotishi rather than a Hellenistic astrologer, but I have spent a fair amount of time hanging out with Chris Brennan, Bob Schmidt and Demetra, so I will give this one a whirl.

The problem, Damon, is that you're looking at a limited number of obvious factors rather than the bigger picture. I will pass on Peter Fonda because of the C rating, and I don't know the first thing about Rock Hudson, but I will tackle Monroe because my mother went to junior high school with her so the family always talked about her a lot.

Damon writes:

Quote:
In all these charts the MC or MC ruler appears in a weak position and the only chart where I see something to make up for that is Marilyn Monroe(Sun in 11 Moon and Jupiter in 7 but far from angle). But would that be enough given her overwhelming fame?
Modern Astrolgers would claim her Venus is responsible for her image of sensuality,but as you can see, its out of sect,in detriment,cadent


First of all, Venus is the ruler of the powerful Tenth, and the Ninth may be cadent but it is "the good decline" and "the house of the God." The ruler of the Tenth in the Ninth is always a good combination. Also, Venus may be in detriment in a Mars sign, but Mars, the dispositor, is in the exaltation sign of Venus, which ought to go a long way to alleviate the detriment. I don't know for sure if mutual reception in between dignities was a Hellenistic doctrine, but the way Antiochus sometimes treats exaltation lords almost like co-rulers implies that this combination is important.

Also, look at the aspects. Using whole sign aspects, Venus is in sextile relationship with the Sun, Moon, Mercury, and Jupiter. Jupiter is a benefic, and although Mercury is a neutral which can become benefic or malefic according to its situation, its position as lord of the House of the Good Daimon in its own sign certainly qualifies it as a benefic in this case, and Venus is also in favorable aspect to both luminaries. So all her aspects are positive.

Finally, Venus is co-present with the Lot of Fortune. This is favorable in itself, but if we follow Valens in using Fortune as an alternate Ascendant, Venus appears in the Ascendant itself, the most powerful position of all.

With all these benefits, then, where does the detriment fit in? Her personal relationships were a mess.

But how could her relationships be a mess with the Moon and Jupiter in the 7th? Jupiter rules the 8th and the Moon rules the 12th, so this is also a combination of the rulers of 8 and 12. Quite a mixed bag. She married famous men like baseball star Joe DiMaggio and Pulitzer prize-winning playwright Arthur Miller, which is the Moon-Jupiter effect, but her relationships with these celebrities were unhappy and even abusive, which is the 8-12 effect. (DiMaggio beat the daylights out of her in a fit of jealous rage after her very public escapade on the subway grate.)

The main thing, in any form of astrology, is to balance and weigh all the factors rather than basing an interpretation on just a few.
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
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Posted: Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the points about Monroe.
This rulership thing sometimes baffles me.
I have the 7th lord,jupiter in Aquarius at MC in 9th house. Then venus Mars Sun in capricorn in 8th in WSH.
An astrologer would bet Id wed a girl of status and benefit from her wealth(8th house planets) yet im 51 and I never met a high status girl let alone wed her. This makes no sense to me given that it appears to be a clear cut picture
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rohitkumar



Joined: 02 Feb 2013
Posts: 33
Location: India

Posted: Thu Feb 07, 2013 8:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
Tzadde wrote:
Well, what are you trying to say? Do you want to ask something?


i dont see eminence signs in those charts




Some time doing change the destiny means if we are so much hard worker than in that case our astrology get changed...
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