skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

A few celebrities
Goto page 1, 2  Next
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Sun Jan 13, 2013 1:02 pm    Post subject: A few celebrities Reply with quote

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Fonda,_Henry

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hudson,_Rock

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Monroe,%20Marilyn

Hi
I decided to focus on a few celebritoes whose chart doesnt seem to fit their status,although unfortunately ADB doesnt show Fortuna. Astrotheme does but Im having trouble using that site.
In all these charts the MC or MC ruler appears in a weak position and the only chart where I see something to make up for that is Marilyn Monroe(Sun in 11 Moon and Jupiter in 7 but far from angle). But would that be enough given her overwhelming fame?
Modern Astrolgers would claim her Venus is responsible for her image of sensuality,but as you can see, its out of sect,in detriment,cadent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, what are you trying to say? Do you want to ask something?
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzadde wrote:
Well, what are you trying to say? Do you want to ask something?


i dont see eminence signs in those charts
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 5:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would discount chart 1 (Fonda)as its only rated C.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Help:RR

I will take a look at the other 2 later.

Even a cursory glance shows Monroe does have eminence indicators.

I think the you may be judging eminence using a largely modern mindset ie focusing almost exclusively on the MC. Traditionally, there are many other methods to assess eminence in a chart.

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly


Last edited by Mark on Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Mark
I may have to look at the rules for eminence again but it appears to me about 80% of the population has signs of eminence in their charts.

To make things worse for the rep of Greek astrology ,the most famous translator of Hellenic Astrology,Robert Schmitz,is said to have abandoned his students or something of the sort.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
Posts: 451
Location: USA

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon,

It's obvious you don't quite know what you're talking about, on either of these subjects. I know you're seeking to know about them, but there's a difference between skeptical inquiry & being rude. Learn the difference.

damon wrote:
Hi Mark
I may have to look at the rules for eminence again but it appears to me about 80% of the population has signs of eminence in their charts.

To make things worse for the rep of Greek astrology ,the most famous translator of Hellenic Astrology,Robert Schmitz,is said to have abandoned his students or something of the sort.

_________________
Gabe
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I simply made an observation,I dont think I was rude
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
I simply made an observation,I dont think I was rude

For the record, an observation should be based on a fact, not on the idea that you don't see something when others see.

The fact is that these charts (except Fonda's, because of inaccuracy) belong to eminent people. Therefore, eminence should be indicated on their charts. Some of the techniques used by astrologers are actually pointing out the eminence in more than one indication. It is obvious you don't know these techniques, otherwise you would see what we see, don't you think so?

You didn't ask anything, you simply stated what you believe. Again, that is not an observation.
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, you have the 10th and MC rulers, the 11th house, the Lots and their lords. I think the chances of anyone person having signs of eminence is pretty reasonable dont you agree?
Monroe had planets in 11 and 7 amongst other things.
As I said ADB doesnt show lots
But people can see what they like
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon wrote:
Quote:
I may have to look at the rules for eminence again but it appears to me about 80% of the population has signs of eminence in their charts.


What actually do you look for to find eminence in a chart? I am curious. I suspect your 'rules' and mine differ a lot.

damon wrote:
Quote:
To make things worse for the rep of Greek astrology ,the most famous translator of Hellenic Astrology,Robert Schmitz,is said to have abandoned his students or something of the sort.


What has this random , bizarre comment got to do with anything here? Confused

You put up these charts to discuss eminence/fame. Lets stick to some astrology and leave gossip and personalised accusations about third parties off the forum.

Generally, I am getting the impression you have a problem with hellenistic astrology. Fair enough. Your entitled to your opinion.

You have two choices. Either ignore it completely and stop posting about it or actually take the time to properly study it. However, if you expect your astrological answers to all be a quick fix you will find its not for you.

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

See my previous post
I dont expect quick fixes, I think astrology represents only 20% of ourlife,based on experience.
But some people think eminence must always be shown in the chart
As I said theres certainly a lot of people with eminence signs who arent eminent
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
Quote:
No, you have the 10th and MC rulers, the 11th house, the Lots and their lords. I think the chances of anyone person having signs of eminence is pretty reasonable dont you agree? Monroe had planets in 11 and 7 amongst other things. As I said ADB doesnt show lots. But people can see what they like


So were you seriously interested in getting a reply or did you just post here to seek to criticise traditional astrology?

I would confess its a bit of a circular argument looking for eminence when we know the person is already famous. However, it is worthwhile checking out traditional theory and comparing it with real lives.

I and many other astrologers are open to the possibility that some traditional eminence techniques may hold up better than others.

However, you have demonstrated contempt prior to investigation. Judging by several of your posts it seems like you may have something of an agenda to undermine traditional astrology. There is a difference between a questioning and an ill informed dismissive attitude.

I am therefore dropping out of this thread with immediate effect.

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I dont have an agenda but when people said they all had signs of eminence it occurred to me this could be a beaten track.
If you can be famous with the Sun in all houses then the theory becomes meaningless.
When I see so many possibilities of eminence like the position of 10th,MC, 5th house, and the 4 main lots I become a bit concerned thats all.
At least in traditional astrology you can only be famous with a strong MC or its ruler,theoretically.
But im not close to the hypothesis. There must be a difference betwen eminence through arts or politics,law etc otherwise anything goes.
In fact this one reason astrologers have been criticized in recent years. They want the cake and eat it too.
I dont do it professionally so i have no agenda.

But I agree i dont like to have the Sun in 8th house Laughing
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Mark
Moderator


Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5005
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
Quote:
At least in traditional astrology you can only be famous with a strong MC or its ruler,theoretically.


I am not contributing to any chart analysis now but I have to ask what is this 'Traditional astrology' you speak of?

Alan Leo, Dane Rudhyar?

Mark
_________________
‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Jan 14, 2013 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Since around Kepler. I know about Lily but I dont use horary
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques All times are GMT
Goto page 1, 2  Next
Page 1 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated