skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Can assassinations be prevented? by Elsbeth Ebertin
translated by Jenn Zahrt PhD
A Guide to Interpreting The Great American Eclipse
by Wade Caves
The Astrology of Depression
by Judith Hill
Understanding the mean conjunctions of the Jupiter-Saturn cycle
by Benjamin Dykes
Understanding the zodiac: and why there really ARE 12 signs of the zodiac, not 13
by Deborah Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Prediction of Morins death
Goto page Previous  1, 2
 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
robhywolf



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Lucca, Italy

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:23 am    Post subject: First chart Reply with quote

Hello.

Probably the moderatos remember I am not very expert in ancient astrology. I post a few pictures on this thread because, for my own studies, using the program Morinus I investigated on Morin's death. Perhaps the images I have will be in your interest. Excuse me for the modern planets. For my part, I'll add a few technical note.

The first, important note, is all the marked positions are attainable with their numeric values too, which are very close to get perfect aspects.
The second is the charts are according to the direct motion (no converse).

To be sure no picture will be lost, I'll send three different posts. The first is in graphic shape what the traditional PDs in mundo are in tabled mode. I hope everybody will be able to recognize his/her father even if with ... new trousers :-).



You know better then me the role each planet has in this context.

Settings in Morinus
PDs: Both, in mundo and in zodiac
Technique: Semiarc
Key: Ptolemy
Terrestrial PDs in chart: \secondary motion included
Of course other settings are available.

Roberto


Last edited by robhywolf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robhywolf



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Lucca, Italy

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:27 am    Post subject: Second chart Reply with quote

Hello again.

The second graph is cast in zodiac, with PDs technique. As I know, no PDs charts in zodiac existed in the past, till the software programs permitted to cast them according to different assumptions, and strictly speakingit the following chart is the less traditional one (sorry). If not welcome I'll remove it.

As you can see, in this way the opposition Mars-Saturn in zodiac is very clear, just like the Sun-Jupiter situation. What is new is the position Venus has in the directed, external chart. According to the primum mobile motion, it reached the 8th house from the 9th place. The dark, vertical area is under the local horizon.



Settings in Morinus
Celestial PDs in chart: full pseudo-astronomic mode\secondary motion included
Key: Ptolemy
Other settings are available.

Roberto


Last edited by robhywolf on Sun Jan 20, 2013 11:09 am; edited 4 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
robhywolf



Joined: 08 Jan 2012
Posts: 21
Location: Lucca, Italy

Posted: Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:31 am    Post subject: Third chart Reply with quote

Hello.

The last image is for the ingresses.

Note the axis of the mean lunar nodes over the meridian (difference two degrees) and the almuten again on the 8th cusp, this time according to the secondary motion in the real time, *two days* later Morin died. Just a coincidence?




Of course you can play with different settings (Regio domification, Naibod Key, rectification or other) trying to get something better, but it's really possible to discover the time of the death with the accuracy of one hour?

Even if not expert in ancient techniques, the three above charts appear me a strong indication that for Morin it was the proper moment to die.

Regards,
Roberto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Graham F



Joined: 22 Mar 2008
Posts: 367

Posted: Mon Feb 04, 2013 4:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just came across this post.

I have a book in Franch by Jean Hiéroz (1943), "Ma Vie devant les Astres", a sort of short astrological biography drawing on the AG and the "chroniqueur" of Morin's life, which I presume refers to the anonymous biography published in 1660, "La Vie de maistre Jean-Baptiste Morin, docteur en médecine et professeur royal aux mathématiques à Paris ". It includes reproductions of Morin's charts from AG.

Morin was born in the centre ("within the fortifications") of the town of Villefranche-sur-Saône ("Francopoli Bellerocentrum") (45°N59' / 04°E43), just north-west of Lyon. As Martin calculates, Hiéroz gives 8:33 LAT on 23/2/1583 (but Martin's geographical guess is a bit off). As Martin says, Morin gives his times by the 24 hour clock starting with previous LAT noon. I think the confusion with the 22nd is that he also (and first) gives chart of the syzygy (New Moon) on the 22nd at 9:43 (i.e. 21:43 from noon on 21st).

According to Hiéroz, Morin used directions from radix, SR, LR, directions from the latter two, transits and elections.

Hiéroz gives, for M's death, the "direction of Jupiter significator, ruler of 8 in 12, to the square of Saturn promissor, ruler of MC and also in 12". (I haven't checked this).
He also gives the SR, directions to SR (SR MC comes to square with radix and SR Moon; ASC comes to conj Moon SR (ruler of 8) and opposite radix Moon); and transits (involving Jupiter, Saturn and Mars).

But he apologises for not having been able to calculate what he considers the clincher, the LR ("la révolution lunaire mortifère") which according to the chronicler, had so frightened Morin the previous month. I looked at this, and as Tom said, the most notable feature is the partile conjunction of the LR ASC and South Node in Cancer, but Tom says Morin did not much attend to the nodes - the exception which proves the rule? There is also the LR MC in radix 12 with LR Moon, and Saturn which has just entered Libra (H6 of illness) to join Mars, opposing H1 radix. LR Mercury partile quincunx to radix ASC from Scorpio, with Venus and Sun. LR Jupiter in LR 12, as Tom pointed out.

Graham


Last edited by Graham F on Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:45 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 1219
Location: Delhi

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 5:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using Morin' data in Morinus software.
Regio + Naibod key.

I get Zodiacal sq Sat(promissor) to Sun(signifactor) = 72.567 = 1656.10.17

which is not too far away.

For famous people adverse directions relating to MC can be an indicator of death.Saturn is affecting Sun.


Why was Morin so mortified ?

Last time when Mars was zod. sq Moon at age 12(11.435 =1594.09.30) his mother died.
Moon is the 4th lord and this could be the reason why morin thought 4th is house of mother.
When saturn's directon to sun showed up(with no father around) and sun in 12th- he must have thought that it would be him or some severe affliction to his reputation.

PD
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tom
Moderator


Joined: 11 Oct 2003
Posts: 3509
Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Tue Feb 05, 2013 3:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
When Saturn's direction to sun showed up(with no father around) and sun in 12th- he must have thought that it would be him or some severe affliction to his reputation.


Morin had no problems using exaltation rulers. Aries rises in his chart and the Sun is the exaltation ruler of the ASC. A direction to the exaltation ruler of the ASC could easily be seen as a threat to the native from disease (12th house). He also saw the Sun as the life force particularly if it were connected to the ascendant.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Traditional (& Ancient) Techniques All times are GMT
Goto page Previous  1, 2
Page 2 of 2

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated