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mystery chart exercise dec 21 2012
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james_m



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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: mystery chart exercise dec 21 2012 Reply with quote

one of these charts is an actor.


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johannes susato



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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the mystery charts, james.

But using equal-house charts for all of those, who use Placidus or Regiomontanus houses, the cusps remain a real "mystery".
If contrarivise you chose Placidus or Regiomontanus charts, it would be very easy for the equal-house-section of the forum, to see them into those charts.

Johannes
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Johannes_Susato wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the mystery charts, james.
But using equal-house charts for all of those, who use Placidus or Regiomontanus houses, the cusps remain a real "mystery".
If contrarivise you chose Placidus or Regiomontanus charts, it would be very easy for the equal-house-section of the forum, to see them into those charts.


First off thanks very much to James for going to the time and trouble to do this. Thumbs up

It seems to be a commonly held view (by those that that use quadrant houses) that displaying charts in a quadrant system is fairer to everybody. I disagree. I use whole sign houses and much prefer to see a chart in equal houses.

If a mystery chart is displayed in say Placidus (or Alcabitius, Regiomontanus, Campanus, Koch etc) I have to work round the vagaries of intercepted signs which is much harder to follow from a WSH point of view. Its not like I can go away and re-display the chart on my own software with WSH! I think the fairest way all round for mystery chart exercises like this is to display such charts in Equal and Placidus. I wouldn't even consider Regiomontanus as relatively few people use it for natal in the astrological community as a whole.

Mark
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I go for the first with third as second choice.Definetely not the second Thumbs up
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Ile



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 132

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks James! Thumbs up

I must admit that it is really tricky for me to look at equal houses but I will give a try.

I must admit that on the first glance, none of the charts speak to me loudly of an actor. The second chart maybe more loudly than the other two, but I'm not quite sure about it also.

I can't not notice that in the first chart MC-IC axis falls in 3rd sign which I often find in people who are writers.
Now, Venus is 10th sign ruler, and since IC is so close to the AC by being in 3rd sign, Venus can come to be in 3rd division having in mind that now the mundane house cusps of 2nd and 3rd are smaller in longitude length because of the IC placement in 3rd sign. So, Venus having rulership in 10th and being in 3rd division (probably) would point me out to someone who writes. But even if Venus is in 2nd, because second sign is trine 10th, often gives signs for the profession as Paulus and all other have already said.

Mars being ruler of MC and being just before the 7th cusp, would point me out that he may took this career in foreign country, or that he traveled a lot because of the job/profession he has.

The MC/IC axis in the 2nd chart falls in 11th/5th signs, and Valens reminds us that in such cases (as in the case of chart 1) we should comingle the significations of both (MC-IC and 11th - 5th).

Having in mind that he has a fiery sign on ascendant and the axis of MC - IC touch the 5th and 11th I would say that he [or she] is some kind of entertainer. I have often seen people connecting these 2 houses as someone who entertains (5th) and its audience (11th).
This can easily be a man who is born for the scene.

But this is not enough to say that he is an actor, I would say that he is an entertainer.
Moon after changing signs would trine Venus as ruler of the MC, which also points me out to music entertainment.
I have often seen that planet which rise above the ascendant first in the nativities shows the profession of the native. This is my experience, I haven't read this anywhere [or at least don't remember that I've read it].
Venus is in fiery sign and aspects the MC closely by sextile. I think, she can't be put aside easily in regards to career.

Third chart has Mercury accentuated, very strong Mercury, ruler of ascendant in great dignity in 10th, speaks to me that this is someone who's career is very important to him and that he has success in it.
But is it an actor? I don't have enough evidences to support that.
I don't think he is an actor either.
I have seen that actors has fiery signs accentuated, and guess what? This chart has no planet in fiery signs (if we neglect the outers).
He is someone who is either a writer, or someone who travels a lot. And this is because of Mars, as I said earlier for the planet which first rises above the ascendant. This Mars applies toward Saturn in 7th which also has to do with journeys abroad.
We can see that here MC also falls in 9th sign, which furthermore accentuates traveling, but also philosophy, religion and etc.
Venus as ruler of 9th sign and MC is here, so 9th/10th are again connected.

This Saturn rules 5th which is the place of our entertainment, and what we do for realization of that need of ours. So, in 7th, I would say that this man/woman wants to engage with other people, or to travel often.
The weight on Mars and Saturn just doesn't give me clues that this man is related to some creative endeavors. Malefics are often connotative with foreign countries, being expelled from your own country, and on angles, often are associate with travelings. Jupiter also rises with Mars and he is ruler of 7th and dispositor of Saturn who rules 5th.

So if I must vote, I would say that the second chart is an actor, or if not, this is for sure someone related to music because of Venus.
First chart is that of a writer or someone who enjoys writing.
Third chart, I don't have a clue Very Happy
It is someone who enjoys philosophy and traveling methinks Very Happy


Last edited by Ile on Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ile wrote:
Quote:
I must admit that it is really tricky for me to look at equal houses but I will give a try.


I have asked James to add in the charts in Placidus too when he gets a chance so everybody is happy. However, as he lives in the pacific end of Canada its still very early where he is!

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:09 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Ile



Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 132

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 3:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
Ile wrote:
Quote:
I must admit that it is really tricky for me to look at equal houses but I will give a try.


I have asked James to add in the charts in Placidus when he gets a chance so everybody is happy. However, as he lives in the pacific end of Canada its still very early where he is!

Mark


I didn't knew that. I already took my chances in equal and whole sign houses. So, if I messed up, now I have "back-up" explanation, that I was too rushy and didn't wait for the divisions Very Happy
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ile wrote:
Quote:
I didn't knew that. I already took my chances in equal and whole sign houses. So, if I messed up, now I have "back-up" explanation, that I was too rushy and didn't waited for the divisions


Sounds like a fool proof defence to me. Smile

I will try and avoid reading anyones delineations here until I have taken a crack at this myself.

Mark
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GR



Joined: 14 May 2005
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

damon wrote:
I go for the first with third as second choice. Definitely not the second Thumbs up


Astrological reasonings, damon, please. This is more fun when we see how we are wrong. Very Happy

My choice is going to be the second chart: Helios conjoined to Kronos, which (and I've argued this before) is significant for actors, by virtue of actors pretending to be what they are not, a basic nature for Kronos. Both are also about to conjoin and are being conjoined by the domicile lord of the 10th topical place, Hermes, which is in retrograde; so maybe there was a career change to acting when the native was around 20 or so. Hermes also has signification for performance, namely athletic displays.

Of the three planets naturally signifying action (Ares, Hermes, Aphrodite), the one most angular by sign is Aphrodite, which also has signification for performance. Helios, Kronos, and Hermes are all also in the confines of Aphrodite.

Aphrodite & Kronos also have signification for action based on being the domicile and exalted lords, respectively, of the portion of the MC.

And while I haven't looked, did not Aphrodite make an appearance within the week before the birth?
Also, if anyone wants to stick closely to Ptolemy, who gives actors to Hermes and Aphrodite, esp. if they are associated with Kronos, well there you go. Wink
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First chart: ASC and Moon in Leo-need to show off
ruler of MC setting
third chart MC anfd ASC ruler conjunct Sun and MC Thumbs up
Neptun setting
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tom said it wouldn't easy, lol..
for those who like the way the 17th century monk did things..


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Geoffrey



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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would say the second chart is the actor. Moon conjunct Jupiter. 'Expansion of understanding and growth' through 'instinctive and empathetic response' would seem to fit the needs of an actor.

The other two charts have Moon opposite Jupiter and I cannot see anybody having a job depending on the outward expression of their emotions with this aspect - not without having to work very hard at it, anyhow.

Geoffrey
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 9:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First chart - MC in Aries, 10th Sign is Taurus, so the significators of profession are Mars and Venus. Seeing Mars exalted in 6th and Venus in Virgo, I was tempted to believe the native is a doctor, but both are cadent, so s/he is not prominent in her job, but more likely to be a nurse or a caretaker (succedant Moon is stronger than cadent Sun, Venus and Mars).

Second chart - MC in Libra, 10th Sign is Virgo, so we behold Venus and Mercury. I'm not sure how to take Venus... angular by being in first WSH or cadent by being in 12th division... Mercury is succedant by Sign and angular by division, so the person is certainly brainy, especially with Saturn conjoining Mercury... both being combust, while Mercury is retrograde. The native is smart, but looks stupid or clumsy to others.
Probably a comedian, with Sagittarius Rising, Rx Jupiter in opposition to aforementioned planets and in conjunction with the Moon. While crowd pleasing, s/he is sad in his/her own privacy.
Note that Jupiter rules the 10th Sign after Part of Fortune. Oh, Venus can be angular because is in 7th Sign after PoF, but the native is not strongly prominent in his/her profession, so I bet a local success (by country or state). If the native is not a comedian, then is an artist.

Third chart - MC in Taurus, 10th Sign is Gemini, so Venus and Mercury. This chart is really confusing, because Mercury signifies both the native and the profession, in Gemini is really polyvalent, any work involving communication, travels, education, politics and many other things can be done without difficulty, so we take a third significator of profession, Mars, which is in Cancer, in 11th and conjunct Jupiter.
Anyway, both Mercury and Venus are in their domiciles in 10th and 9th Houses...
Now it gets really interesting... 11th, 10th and 9th, with the involved planets bursting with essential dignities... The native is really lucky, isn't it? I was thinking of politics because of 9th House, where is the PoF... with the 10th PoF Sign in Aquarius, where is the Moon, which is succedant by division. The native is really prominent in his profession, but I can't be sure which one is, with the many possibilities he or she has...
Probably a politician, an actor, a writer... could be anyone, even a director. Saturn rules the radical 5th House, also the 9th and 10th PoF Signs... and sits in the 11th PoF Sign, of accomplishment. Venus could become angular just because of PoF, so this chart must belong to our actor, while the second chart could be related to acting or not.
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damon



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Posted: Fri Dec 21, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzadde
I look at my data and found a number of people whose MC or tenth ruler is cadent yet they are successful. Mitt Romney is one.
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margherita



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Posted: Sat Dec 22, 2012 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hate to lose, but I will try.

The second because the Venus in the first house by WSH and ruler of Libra MC. The moon is applying to Venus.

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