46
i don't know what the "Regulus USA National Horoscope" is
It's a rectified July 4 1776 chart that Dr. H published a couple of years ago. It is similar to the Sibley chart.
i am not convinced the aries ingress to washington has a lot of relevance, or more relevance then the other 3 ingress charts...
This is an area that is crying for research. Prior to the 1950s, Aries Ingress charts were used as a kind of nativity for the year. Subsequent charts, other ingress charts, eclipses, etc, were subordinate to it. Charles Carter wrote a highly influential booklet titled "An Introduction to Political Astrology" in 1951. In that book he argued that most astrologers "missed" World War II and attributed that to their use of the Aries Ingress charts. He argued for the use of national charts and political cycles instead.

With all due respect to Mr. Carter, I doubt mundane astrology has performed any better since 1951 than before. And while we might consider an Aries Ingress chart to be dubious for this reason or that, it is more certain than almost any national chart. The number of claimed valid charts for the USA is all we need to know to question this method.

What most contemporary astrologers seem to miss with the Aries Ingress chart is selection of ruler of the year. They don't do it. Yet selecting the ruler of the year was considered important by every astrologer who used any method like this. But we then run into the usual astrology problem: there is no universal agreement on how to do it. Some would select the ruler of the ASC or perhaps the MC or the almutem of one of those points. Some might simply select the strongest planet by essential dignity or accidental dignity or a combination of the two. There are other ways.

It is this choice of the ruler of the year that gives the year its "color" or flavor. I've tried to decipher Morin's rules for picking this ruler, and they aren't easy. He looks at it this way: each mundane chart has a particular important point. In the Aries Ingress that would be 0 Aries. Find the planet that has the most influence over that point for that year and you have the Lord of the year. The problem is that Mars and the Sun have a huge edge each year. But this year I figured it had to be Mars because nothing else seemed to have much influence and sure enough this has been a Mars type year. Morin gives an example where a planet other than Mars is Lord of the year, but in almost every chart I've seen I can't figure out how to get a planet other than Mars or the Sun.

The other three ingress charts are subordinate to the Aries Ingress chart and if they resemble the Aries Ingress they are most likely, according to the theory, going to be the time period when the promise of the Aries Ingress manifests. That needs research, too.

47
thanks tom,

i see astrology as falling into a number of potholes, this question of how to connect an event to the country it happens in being an obvious challenge. i agree that we are no further ahead with what carter had hoped for in spite of his observations or wish... studying up on charts for the usa is like stepping into a quagmire.. i feel the same way about ingress charts and i agree that it is hard for the aries ingress to not have an undue focus on mars and the sun, if zero aries is going to be considered the most relevant starting point for the year..

i actually did the aries ingress to newtown, ct and aurora colorado.. there is so little difference between newtown and washington as to not merit doing the chart if you've done one for washington.. with aurora colorade scorpio rises putting more of an emphasis on mars if one goes with the ascendant ruler as having a greater theme for the year in the particular place.. we do need some chart to tie it all together and i don't think astrologers effectively have one at this point.. research is generally missing in astrology even though astrologers give it a lot of lip service..

i find myself looking at different charts and noticing connections, but i wonder just how meaningful and relevant they are. i did the solar return charts for 2011 for james eagen holmes the aurora shooter.. for me the relocated return to aurora has much more meaning then the solar return to la jolla.. how can we move astrology forward research wise when we can't even know basic details like where a person was on their birthday, while trying to do solar returns? seriously, it is tough..

since his birth time is rated AA, i opted to do the primary directions for his chart into this horrific event as well.. it would seem the stationary jupiter prominent in his chart for a few reasons and ruler of the 5/8 houses was more active for the year of this event as well by primary direction, along with the his natal mars.. that is mars directed opposite jupiter beginning of 2012.. the closest for timing of the event is converse mars 45 to venus.. venus and jupiter are in a close square in the natal chart house 6 to 9..

connecting these events to some bigger chart is sketchy at this point.. i figure an astrologer is better off just working out the astrology off single events but it does nothing to further mundane astrology.. i find myself tempted to revert to a different day and age when kings and queens ruled an area.. that is so much easier.. get their birth chart and use them as a reflection for the area, or country they reign over.. it is a little bit of what i am thinking using obamas chart and making it a focal point and which i have shared on the general astrology area of this forum..

48
Could this vacation trip have been the trigger for Adam Lanza's actions on December 14th?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... spree.html

From the article:

"She didn't, however, want him to cook while she wasn't there so would prepare him meals and leave them for him to reheat."

"The 52-year-old checked into the Omni Mount Washington Resort at 12:10pm on Tuesday, December 11, and checked out at 12:27pm on Thursday, according to HLN."

"It is a five-hour drive between there and her Newtown home."

It is probable that she prepared at least 6 meals on Monday, December 10th. It is possible that Adam did not know until that day that his mother was going on a vacation but not taking or asking him along. With that possibility, I looked again at Adam's progressed demi-anlunar to see if the 10th could be shown as a possible trigger date for anger or depression. Only by changing the birth time I had originally come up with could the PDAL give such an indication and it was a powerfully depressive one yielding the chart I originally had for December 14th.

My surprise came when I progressed the demi-anlunar, using this new time, to the rampage of the 14th as the chart yielded was more powerful than the one I had formerly used for that event. It placed his progressed Moon in exact opposition to progressed Mars with the opposition laying across the Asc-Desc axis.

The chart's IC is at 278?15' holding the November 27th Mars-Pluto conjunction at 278?39' and the return Pluto at 278?59'. In the hours before reaching that point the progressing IC swept across Adam's progressed Moon-Mars midpoint at 275?49', his natal Saturn-Pluto midpoint at 276?52', his progressed Saturn-Pluto midpoint at 277?02' and his natal Moon at 277?07'. The time compacted combination of anger (progressed Moon [185?59'] opposite progressed Mars [5?38] with progressed demi-anlunar Asc pointing to 185?58') and depression (progressed Saturn-Pluto midpoint [277?02'] on natal Moon [277?07'], as well as progressed Sun at 50?15' square natal Saturn at 320?08') that I have noted in similar events I have worked charts for.

The birth data needed to get these charts is 8:35 am, EST, April 22, 1992.

This is not done in "fun" but is serious work. As serious as any other technique that is used.

Bob

49
Tom wrote:
i don't know what the "Regulus USA National Horoscope" is
It's a rectified July 4 1776 chart that Dr. H published a couple of years ago. It is similar to the Sibley chart.
i am not convinced the aries ingress to washington has a lot of relevance, or more relevance then the other 3 ingress charts...
This is an area that is crying for research. Prior to the 1950s, Aries Ingress charts were used as a kind of nativity for the year. Subsequent charts, other ingress charts, eclipses, etc, were subordinate to it. Charles Carter wrote a highly influential booklet titled "An Introduction to Political Astrology" in 1951. In that book he argued that most astrologers "missed" World War II and attributed that to their use of the Aries Ingress charts. He argued for the use of national charts and political cycles instead.

With all due respect to Mr. Carter, I doubt mundane astrology has performed any better since 1951 than before. And while we might consider an Aries Ingress chart to be dubious for this reason or that, it is more certain than almost any national chart. The number of claimed valid charts for the USA is all we need to know to question this method.

What most contemporary astrologers seem to miss with the Aries Ingress chart is selection of ruler of the year. They don't do it. Yet selecting the ruler of the year was considered important by every astrologer who used any method like this. But we then run into the usual astrology problem: there is no universal agreement on how to do it. Some would select the ruler of the ASC or perhaps the MC or the almutem of one of those points. Some might simply select the strongest planet by essential dignity or accidental dignity or a combination of the two. There are other ways.

It is this choice of the ruler of the year that gives the year its "color" or flavor. I've tried to decipher Morin's rules for picking this ruler, and they aren't easy. He looks at it this way: each mundane chart has a particular important point. In the Aries Ingress that would be 0 Aries. Find the planet that has the most influence over that point for that year and you have the Lord of the year. The problem is that Mars and the Sun have a huge edge each year. But this year I figured it had to be Mars because nothing else seemed to have much influence and sure enough this has been a Mars type year. Morin gives an example where a planet other than Mars is Lord of the year, but in almost every chart I've seen I can't figure out how to get a planet other than Mars or the Sun.

The other three ingress charts are subordinate to the Aries Ingress chart and if they resemble the Aries Ingress they are most likely, according to the theory, going to be the time period when the promise of the Aries Ingress manifests. That needs research, too.
Tom

Nick Campion in Mundane astrology mentions that A. Barbault was so frustrated with his own failure that he began to dig dip into prediction,and the fact is that later he predicted several events,like the Russian invasion of Poland and much more. An interesting reading.
Also,when you look at ACGs for a nation you must compare it to th leaders chart. The UK has Mars in an angle with the Falklands,and so had Margaret Thatcher.This is what one must look for

50
unique_astrology wrote: This is not done in "fun" but is serious work. As serious as any other technique that is used.

Bob
hi bob,
thanks again for sharing your work here.. i think we will get a public birth time for the lanzas at some point in time at which point we can see whether the rectifications were accurate or not. i am not dismissing yours or anyone's work with my comment on astrology being fun to do.. i play music for a living and it is very fun to do as well.. i take it very seriously too.. i suppose for me, doing charts and trying to figure out the likelihood of something astrologically is a real passion and in this sense it is a lot of fun.. sorry if you were put off by my comment as it wasn't meant to demean anyone's work here.. obviously you love what you are doing.. it is in that sense i am using the word 'fun'.. cheers james

52
No it's not weird it's typical. No matter what the event there are people out there crazy enough to interpret any inconsistency in news reports, and there are always inconsistencies particularly early on, as "proof" that it didn't happen. So for the record, Elvis is dead. JFK is dead and the incident at Newtown happened. This stuff is just just nuts and it doesn't belong here.

53
Thanks Tom,

I have removed the links above.

Please folks show some sensitivity and common sense before putting up links. The material above which was deleted was plain wacky. Sadly, there is no shortage of such crazy conspiracy focused material on the internet if you look for it.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

54
Tom wrote:
i don't know what the "Regulus USA National Horoscope" is
[co

The other three ingress charts are subordinate to the Aries Ingress chart and if they resemble the Aries Ingress they are most likely, according to the theory, going to be the time period when the promise of the Aries Ingress manifests. That needs research, too.[/color]
Hi Tom
At SAMVA yahoogroups many people concluded,through rectification mehods,that it is a mistake to use the chart for the moment a group of people decide to start a revolution as the chart of a nation. It is similar to using conception instead of birth chart.
I can check,but the chart they use for the US is for September I think

56
Damon wrote:
Hi Tom
At SAMVA yahoogroups many people concluded,through rectification mehods,that it is a mistake to use the chart for the moment a group of people decide to start a revolution as the chart of a nation. It is similar to using conception instead of birth chart.
I can check,but the chart they use for the US is for September I think
Anyone who has looked at this subject knows there are dozens of possible charts for the USA. Analysis of this thread topic with your version of the USA chart is fine. However, I dont want the thread distracted into a wider discussion of what is the 'correct' chart for the USA. Its an endless topic which has had lots of space devoted it here on the mundane forum. If you want to promote a particular chart please do so on a separate thread.

Thanks

Mark

PS the chart you mentioned is for 1781 not 1871
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

Eclipses, Ptolemy's mundane methods

57
Good evening,

On page 2 of this thread Mr Unique-Astrology posted lunar eclipse charts. Since we have seen in a parallel thread that perhaps Klaudios Ptolomaios' mundane astrological methods have not yet been invalidated, i intend to return to eclipses and attempt to apply Tetrabiblos, Book II, Section 4 and following, retrospectively to the event of this thread. Here is some of the text from Professor Frank Robbins' English translation:
"4. Method of Making Particular [Mundane] Predictions.

After this introductory examination it would be the next task to deal briefly with the procedure of the predictions, and first with those concerned with general conditions of countries or cities. The method of the inquiry will be as follows: The first and most potent cause of such events lies in the conjunctions of the sun and moon at eclipse and the movements of the stars at the time. Of the prediction itself, one portion is regional; 47 therein we must foresee for what countries or cities there is significance in the various eclipses or in the occasional regular stations of the planets, that is, of Saturn, Jupiter, and Mars, whenever they halt, for then they are significant. Another division of the prediction is chronological; therein the need will be to foretell the time of the portents and their duration. A part, too, is generic; through this we ought to understand with what classes the event will be concerned. And finally there is the specific aspect, by which we shall discern the quality of the event itself."
Perhaps those already well familiar with these methods would like to 'carry the torch', as i am currently recovering from some medical treatment. Those who have read Aristotle cannot help noticing Ptolemy's use of predicables in the above text.

Best regards,

lihin
Non esse nihil non est.