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Predicting, Collecting and verifying Actual Events
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3512
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

one persons conversation might be viewed by another as an argument.. for this reason i don't agree or disagree with konrads latest comments in the 947am post.. really, it is much like astrology or anything else.. it is in the eye of the beholder, more then it might be something that everyone shares the same view on..


for this reason i think it is difficult to collect and verify actual events with the use of astrology.. many different techniques are in use and unless one explains them to others who are unfamiliar with them, the collection of the examples may appear meaningless. it reminds me of lists of the 'greatest 100 songs' or something along those lines.. it is very relative to who is compiling the list.. the same would happen here as i see it.. even with those astrologers who worked very hard to offer some sort of statistical basis for there position on astrology and backed it up with 1000's of birth charts for example, and i am thinking the gauquelins research work here - they have been largely dismissed by both the scientific community and a number of folks in the astro community.

so while the idea might be a good one, i don't know how productive it would be. a better way might be to write a book giving all the many examples that you have found work for you, for others interested in specific examples to use and benefit from the data. maybe at some point in the future a collective version of this will happen..
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3512
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi konrad,

to offer another technique providing the same result, notice the secondary progressed midheaven making an exact square to natal mars for july 8 1918 chart for hemigway.

i am curious to know if your approach works on the other examples of accidents or injuries in hemigways life as listed on the adb link?
"While serving in the Ambulance Corps in Italy, he was wounded by shrapnel on 7/08/1918. (He was in a car crash in Billings, Wyoming early morning of 4/07/1935, another in London on 6/20/1945, and another in Havana, Cuba on 7/01/1950. He was in two airplane crashes, the first at nightfall of 1/24/1954 in which he was severely injured, and a second plane crash, also in Uganda.) "
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry James but I completely disagree with you here and this is what i was talking of in the post earlier. Instead of actually posting examples and demonstrating the techniques taught in the books, we have another post giving a point of view on the topic itself and why it will or will not work.

Morning Sun asked to see a collection of events explained astrologically, using whatever methods, and we have one example in 3 pages of posts. Instead what we do have is irrelevant opinions (as far as the topic is concerned) and attempted thread derailing from the get-go.

Anyway, I will try to post another example later on, if not tomorrow.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for sharing your views either way konrad.. we see life differently.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:
hi konrad,

to offer another technique providing the same result, notice the secondary progressed midheaven making an exact square to natal mars for july 8 1918 chart for hemigway.

i am curious to know if your approach works on the other examples of accidents or injuries in hemigways life as listed on the adb link?
"While serving in the Ambulance Corps in Italy, he was wounded by shrapnel on 7/08/1918. (He was in a car crash in Billings, Wyoming early morning of 4/07/1935, another in London on 6/20/1945, and another in Havana, Cuba on 7/01/1950. He was in two airplane crashes, the first at nightfall of 1/24/1954 in which he was severely injured, and a second plane crash, also in Uganda.) "


Yes, I have just looked at the car crash and it does show up. I am going to have some food now, so I will post it later if you want?
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:07 pm    Post subject: Good Start Reply with quote

Konrad,

I think this is a good start! So we have:

Mars out-of-sect in the Asc in the nativity.

A promise of an accident?

How many other charts and accidents can we find with that configuration? Documentable,? a definite?

I think the activation for the injury can and will show up regardless of what method an Astrologer uses.

Triggers: This can show various triggers with different methods used, however, the operative meaning, is that then: Mars out of sec in the Asc in a nativity, would then promise the accident.

Should be kept simple, only look for that configuration, with accidents. Does it bear true? How many examples can we find?

Dissection only for configurations, then discuss triggers. I think it would work and be useful to apply and collect.

[quote="Konrad"]
What caught my eye here was him having Mars out-of-sect in the ASC. For me this is usually a sign of an accident or injury when Mars is activated. Sure enough, Hemingway was injured by mortar fire in World War 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemingway#World_War_I).

As for saying when it happened, I will just show the astrological triggers. Around 3 - 4 days before the event, Saturn, lord of the year, went under the beams while transiting the natal 12th (this same trigger exists in one of my own events), so this period of time has a flag. Now we can see what else is going on at this time. There are a few things to look for and not all of them are always present. If we profect the ASC 30 deg a year, on July 8th 1918, it is at 14 Pisces. On the 8th of July, transiting Mars was at 14 Virgo 30 thus triggering the event.quote]


If kept simple and dissected we would at least have some basis in fact that this even OCCURED with that placement.

For what its worth, thats my opinion.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, Johnny Depp has it too with Mars in Leo. He injured his back while filming some movie ( http://www.starpulse.com/news/index.php/2011/05/08/johnny_depp_suffered_monstrous_back_in ). I can't find any data for the exact time of filming but if it did happen in his 2010 - 2011 revolution, the profected ASC is in Leo activating Mars with an interesting revolution. This is the problem of me having to use celebrity charts though. If anyone has any charts in their files of people they know well, I would appreciate the details.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 8:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For Hemingway's car accident in 1935, the revolution looks like this:




The profection lands in Cancer with the Moon as lady of the year. In the revolution Mars again opposes her while she is, in the revolution, being overcome by natal Mars. The Moon also profects into Mars' sign Scorpio and the ASC of the revolution is in the same sign as Mars.

As for the precise date, by the 7th of April the profected ASC moving 30 deg a year has gone into Leo thus making the Sun important for timing events. On the 7th of April 1935, Mars is partile opposite the Sun while the two benefics are in aversion to the figure.

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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Database Reply with quote

Of course a rather Large Database would need to be created.

Verifiable date of chart, as Lois Rodden did - Yes / No
Aspect or Configuration: Keep separate, only Mars in Asc in Nativity, first,
Methods of dilineation/ System used of chart/event: List All Systems submitted, did event happen when activated, using that sysem?
House System Used, list all:, event happen when used? Timing Accurate?
Triggers: List
Subheading: Accident with/ w/o injury, etc

Then proceed to Mars throughout signs in Asc., etc, etc,
Of course many more headings, but it would be interesting to see which Systems / Delineation methods showed the event, as well as house systems used., etc, etc.

But dissecting in smallest increments.

Once a database was made, just a matter of plugging in details, with agreement that the Method used as well as house sys did indeed work.

It would be quite a large project mind you.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, ok. It will be difficult with some things but something like an out-of-sect Mars harming the Moon or the ASC should be pretty straight-forward. I'm kinda excited to see nativities where it doesn't show an accident involving the native as this will probably teach us more about the various techniques than constant hits would.

I can post mine tomorrow just to show the consistency of their application.
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 8:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 685

Posted: Sat Dec 01, 2012 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

varuna2 wrote:
Notice the ketu in those example charts.


Yes, Varuna. What is your take on it?
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 319
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Thu Dec 06, 2012 9:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete
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