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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Predicting, Collecting and verifying Actual Events
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Zarathu



Joined: 09 Jan 2007
Posts: 12
Location: Bar Harbor, Maine USA

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 1:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:


personally i find noel tyls astrology a bore and not all that great, but since he churns out students like robots that say how great he is, we have to live with it regardless..



Tyl's astrology is based on a psychology that has long passed it relevance, and I can say this as a retired psychological counseling professional. In my brother's words..."it can help you get your ShEET all together in one pile, but then you have no idea what to do with it".

But its really based also on need theory, and as such it develops an understanding psychological needs. Whether those needs ever manifest themselves as events is apparantly something the Tyl is not concerned with.

And of course, to get through Tyl's course, all you have to do is parrot exactly what he says. He brooks no deviation. Those with total recall are the most gifted in his program.

I used to be a personal friend of Mr. Tyl, but then I deviated a bit from his standard line and got cut off. I still find his volumes interesting, though often not valid, and most certainly not valid for prediction of events.

I still love his prediction, in PREDICTIONS FOR A NEW MILLENIUM, that the Aliens would be landing by 2010. he told me later that his publishers needed something spectacular.

But if you stick to needs, and psyho-analytic stuff, Noel can be quite accurate. And if you have a strong Sun in your natal chart, solar Arc directions can even work for you.
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:13 am    Post subject: Re: Accurate Predictions Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:
I don't know about you guys, but I get alot of predictions accurate. Just today, my friend, whom I told several weeks ago she would receive a very nice surprise from her sibling. she called me today, she received a 55 inch LCD 3D TV from her brother delivered to her house!! I love that!! that is soooo Awesome I love getting it right! Date was only 2 days off but her bro said it was late and she should have got it sooner!

I have many examples accurate predictions! I am not a big fan of Noel Tyle at all either.


So basically then you ruined your friend's surprise gift of a TV from her sibling and process this guilt by adding an e on to Noel's surname.
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 7:33 am    Post subject: Re: Accurate Predictions Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
So basically then you ruined your friend's surprise gift of a TV from her sibling and process this guilt by adding an e on to Noel's surname.


I sense a bit of "sour grapes there" Really??

No I did not ruin the surprise, I happened to throw the unexpected surprise I saw she would receive, while providing job info severel weeks ago in an email. She had forgotten about it. I happened to be visiting her today and arrived at the same time FEDX came. A bit of synchronicity I think. It was an UNEXPECTED surprise. I happened to remember about the surprise I saw in her chart, and the email I sent her!! It was a lovely surprise, I was as excited as she was!!

No guilt there!, nor with Noel Tyl. Bought his book years ago, didn't think much of it then and still don't, even less after I spoke with him.
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 8:33 am    Post subject: Re: Accurate Predictions Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:


No I did not ruin the surprise, I happened to throw the unexpected surprise I saw she would receive, while providing job info severel weeks ago in an email. She had forgotten about it. I happened to be visiting her today and arrived at the same time FEDX came. A bit of synchronicity I think. It was an UNEXPECTED surprise. I happened to remember about the surprise I saw in her chart, and the email I sent her!! It was a lovely surprise, I was as excited as she was!!


I might, in fact I will, predict many people might be as, if not more, surprised to see the promise of a surprise in a Horoscope. Is this the legendary Uranus progression over the 13th degree of the 2nd house, let's hope so or we will be facing yet another paradigm shift.

Did you stick the TV on and bump into a drama about Jung's marriage experiment. if so let's talk more!!
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3724
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zarathu wrote:


But if you stick to needs, and psyho-analytic stuff, Noel can be quite accurate. And if you have a strong Sun in your natal chart, solar Arc directions can even work for you.


well, we're all entitled to an opinion. it is not like tyl invented solar arc directions. i don't think they have anything to do with him other then that he wrote a book on them.

to quote one of the folks from the makers of the program solar fire "Solar arc direction is one of the oldest predictive techniques in astrology."
http://www.alabe.com/solararc.html

i actually think they work much better then secondary progressions myself, but then i am combining them with other techniques and don't treat them or anything other then maybe transits as a stand alone technique for getting a quick idea of what is going on in connection with an astro chart. i don't think it matters whether one has a 'strong' or weak sun as you imply.

when i started doing astrology back in the 70's transits and secondary progressions was mostly all that was talked about or discussed. fortunately i found out about other techniques, including solar arc directions and have found them equally or more relevant then sec progs, but perhaps others have a different experience which is fine too.

one of the things i know is not everyone works with a 90 degree wheel, or bothers with the hard aspects 45 and 135 which are a part of some schools of thought. i remember reading bernadette bradys book the eagle and the lark a long time ago and being annoyed at the fact some of the examples in her book were not treated very well over this very fact of her ignoring these aspects. so you see, it really isn't about solar arc directions so much as it is all the other techniques that an astrologer may, or may not be using in combination with this or any other technique. ultimately one uses what works for them and questions what doesn't while keeping an eye on how it might all be different with the addition or not of another auxiliary technique like working with a 90 degree wheel, midpoints or any number of astro techniques one could consider.
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Paul
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Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1544

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

james_m wrote:

to quote one of the folks from the makers of the program solar fire "Solar arc direction is one of the oldest predictive techniques in astrology."
http://www.alabe.com/solararc.html


They really aren't though, solar arcs are actually comparatively new compared to other predictive methods. Unless there's some older source I'm not aware of that is.

Quote:
ultimately one uses what works for them and questions what doesn't


I agree. There are many techniques in astrology that one can use. There are some I've not found much use for, and others I've found a lot of use for.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3724
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 9:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi paul,

i am not sure anyone clearly knows the history on the idea of directing a chart approx 1 degree per year - based off the solar arc movement for one day. my main thought was to dispel any idea that noel tyl invented them, or anything as crazy as that..

solar arc directions are an interesting concept that will drive some folks bonkers as they are somewhat static and leave the chart relationships in place. i wouldn't say this is based on some special obsession that more modern astrologers have for aspect relationships, but i note someone discussing this very idea in a thread here on skyscript from a few years ago.

ebertin was using them long before tyl got round to them as i understand it.. where ebertin was introduced to them, i know not.. when i use them in collaboration with other obscure techniques like use of a 90 degree wheel and midpoints, i find them often very relevant. take for example the chart that morning sun provided on another thread here with the lady caught up in thoughts on death. to me death can be captured in a few symbols, but one that i relate to is the non planet pluto as having some affinity with this theme. if you look at the solar arc directions for the chart morning sun provides, you will note the opposition from pluto to her natal sun for this particular year and time frame.. now maybe it is a coincidence, and i wouldn't base everything on a close solar arc direction like this, but it does provide additional support for morning suns concern for her client. one will note the info in the secondary prog data as well.. i have yet to run the same chart using primary directions to see what shows up.. actually the minor progressions seemed to work the best on that particular chart.. people have to try these ideas out for themselves and discover what works or not for themselves.. knowing the history is all fun and good, but i am more into the astrology then i am into the history..
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5147
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nixx wrote:
Quote:
Mark a moddy here is a big fan of Noel, his favourite book is the 1,000,000 25th century predictions which were never going to happen if your cerebral cortex was intact and you had a rudmentary grasp of Platonic Horoscopics. Personally I regard the seemingly quite widespread consensus Noel is the world's premier astrological numpty as a little harsh. He clearly has a fan in your good self. That makes 2 at least, which is twice as many as 1. Uncanny if you ask me.


You have misrepresented what I said here. If you want to distort facts for your whimsical entertainment please dont bring my name into it.

Mark
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Thu Nov 29, 2012 10:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Solar arcs are certainly not one of the oldest predictive systems. However, they have been around longer than many realise. Simmonite (1890) certainly advocated them. Moreover, Johannes Kepler seems to have used a predictive system that sounds very like solar arcs. This topic came up for discussion in an old thread here:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=2817&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:01 am; edited 1 time in total
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 1:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:

You have misrepresented what I said here. If you want to distort facts for your whimsical entertainment please dont bring my name into it.

Mark


Whimiscal?

Fine lines, just a hopefully useful piece of satire to expose a certain folly, but you/we did discuss this book's embarrassing contents sometime back you may recall in a not dissimilar light.
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nix wrote:

Quote:
Whimiscal?


Yes. I would rather explain that privately by PM as this will take us into issues that are probably best discussed off forum. Please check your PM folder.

Quote:
Fine lines, just a hopefully useful piece of satire to expose a certain folly, but you/we did discuss this book's embarrassing contents sometime back you may recall in a not dissimilar light.


I suspect your 'satirical' style may be lost on many here. Plus many people here may not read the mundane forum where I made my comments. The context was the lack of astrologers who make actual mundane predictions. So for the record I am hardly 'a fan' of Noel Tyl's book (Predictions for a New Millennium (1996). I did give Tyl full credit for actually 'having a go' and setting out his predictions for all to see. A lot braver than sticking something up on a blog and pulling it down if events dont turn out the way you predicted. Smile However, looking at the numerous predictions made in the book Noel Tyl's results have been risible.

Mark
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Nixx



Joined: 10 Dec 2011
Posts: 295

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 6:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting point and what brings a lot of us into this subject. In theory the 'satirical style', when it appears, might be lost on Air signs. Water signs might belly laugh.

The dilemma, as I see it, is how to respond constructively to Morning Sun's posts, this may depend on what sign s/he is, in theory?

You probably pay more attention to 'predictions' than I do as my interest is primarily in the psyche generating them. I will take your word that this - PULLING DOWN –is more endemic than I may have previously known about. Someone said to me the other day the reason Noel predicted an alien invasion was the publishers wanted something sexy, is this more than we need to know, or a confirmation of what we may already suspect? I really don’t understand why you give Noel any credit for this book, doesn’t it make all astrologers look like idiots it’s in Alice Bailey territory as I see it.
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MorningSun



Joined: 24 Oct 2006
Posts: 233

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My intention was not only to collect predictions, but document what happens to clients of astrologers, under certain configurations. As an example, in a previous topic thread, Konrad states:

As for this particular combination (Mars in overcoming square to the Moon) I have seen a few charts where this brings bodily harm to the native when the finer predictive techniques confirm the broader ones. I actually have it myself and have suffered hospitalisations after being attacked and after breaking my foot playing sports in successive years when Mars ruled the bounds of the primary directed Moon and while Mars also afflicted the Moon or the ASC in the revolution.

And I have some files on a terrible burns, getting jobs, losing jobs, when a house sells, and actually recently, this one has made the biggest impression on me yet: the thread in traditional, with prog Saturn on Mc squaring prog Pluto on Asc, (2nd he's) opposing Transiting Uranus in 8th, also forms Tsquare to Prog Saturn and Prog Moon.

I am well aware Trad Astrologers would scoff at using Pluto and Uranus, but if you were to listen to what happened to this person's life, and hear the loss, and stress on the voice you would be convinced also. The Prog Angles shifted to Malefics with hard aspects, it produced REAL EFFECTS. Other methods used also confirmed the losses. I will forever take heed to this type of configuration, just to warn others if I ever see it again, which I hope I never do!! Made me want to just stop doing astrology altogether.

Those are the types of instances that should be preserved, as all the ancients did. And how does one know if the ancient and trad Astrologers just repeated something so often it became true, and is still being practiced and believed. Much like a lesson I learned in grade school, the one and Only tome I cheated. I thought the person knew more than I did, so I cheated on one question and got it wrong!! I have never taken much at face value, unless it bears out to be true through trial and error.

So the point was to preserve the real life experiences of configurations. The Astrologers of old, did not have much of a population to practice on, so their conclusions are for a small sampling of people in their immediate area. Today, we are global, with Astrologers communicating worldwide, and we have to copy definitions of transits and configurations from centuries ago instead of using our own abilities and experiences of clients, friends or family??

Do not get me wrong, the knowledge gained through the centuries has led us here today, but I feel we should also be making gains to leave for future generations, to prove and document the actual events.
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 691

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 9:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MorningSun wrote:
Do not get me wrong, the knowledge gained through the centuries has led us here today, but I feel we should also be making gains to leave for future generations, to prove and document the actual events.


For sure, we have to see what actually works and what doesn't but too often it just becomes a few egos telling everyone else THE TRUTH™. It then becomes the "defend your viewpoint" game and the practical examples are forgotten about. Just look at this thread.

MorningSun wrote:
That is what I would like to see here. A collection of actual aspects and configurations, with the chart posted, as well as the astrologer stating what actually happened in the person’s life. Then, asking the community for more examples using their vast array of experience as to how many others had clients with the same event occurring with the same aspects.


If you'd like Morning Sun, I can post my example to start things?
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Konrad



Joined: 01 Nov 2009
Posts: 691

Posted: Fri Nov 30, 2012 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Before I post my own, I'd like to show a rather compelling example of this in Ernest Hemingway's nativity.

Here are his details: http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hemingway,_Ernest

and his chart is Lahiri Ayanamsa:




What caught my eye here was him having Mars out-of-sect in the ASC. For me this is usually a sign of an accident or injury when Mars is activated. Sure enough, Hemingway was injured by mortar fire in World War 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hemingway#World_War_I).

The exact date of the injury was 8th of July 1918. His profected ASC had arrived in Aquarius on the previous Revolution. Natally Mars is in a stake of Aquarius and is overcoming the lord of the year, Saturn. So we have indications of harm to the native this year.

Here is the nativity/revolution bi-wheel for 1917:




First thing I see here is revolution Mars opposed to natal Moon while revolution Moon is in the sign of natal Mars. This seems to confirm the bodily harm shown in the profections. Revolution Mars is also in the sign of the profected Moon while Saturn is combust and conjoined the natal 12th cusp in the revolution.

As for saying when it happened, I will just show the astrological triggers. Around 3 - 4 days before the event, Saturn, lord of the year, went under the beams while transiting the natal 12th (this same trigger exists in one of my own events), so this period of time has a flag. Now we can see what else is going on at this time. There are a few things to look for and not all of them are always present. If we profect the ASC 30 deg a year, on July 8th 1918, it is at 14 Pisces. On the 8th of July, transiting Mars was at 14 Virgo 30 thus triggering the event.

Here is the profection/transit chart:

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