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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Definition of Cazimi

 
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 7:58 pm    Post subject: Definition of Cazimi Reply with quote

Lilly says that a planet is cazimi if it is within 17 minutes (page 113, though 16' on page 300) of the sun's longitude.

Coley states (page 96) that a planet is in cazimi if it is within 16 minutes of longitude AND latitude of the sun, which makes cazimi a much rarer event.

Who has it right? What are the experiences of the luminaries here assembled?

Taking Coley's definition, when the Moon is cazimi, there will also be a partial solar eclipse. (16 minutes is almost exactly the visible angular radius of the Sun and the Moon.) Up to the point when it becomes cazimi, the Moon has not been visible due to the brilliance of the Sun. More poetically, or philosophically, the Moon has been "burnt up" by the Sun and so debilitated by being combust. But when in cazimi, the moon is now visible again and is now strong enough to weaken the sun itself - the light from the sun is significantly diminished.

But more particularly, when taking the restricted Coley definition of cazimi, the minor planets will be seen to transit across the face of the Sun (when retrograde!) and so "have the strength to be visible again" after being combust. Interestingly, the first two people to see a transit of Venus were Jeremiah Horrocks and William Crabtree in England in 1639. This observation had been unreported when Lilly published Christian Astrology in 1647, but the Polish astronomer Johannes Hevelius published Horrocks' results in 1662, which created a lot of interest in the Royal Society as it provided a method to gauge the size of the solar system and indeed, Horrocks made an estimate which was the most accurate to date, calculating an Earth to Sun distance which was about two thirds of the actual value. So it is quite probable that Coley knew about this work when he published Key to the Whole Art of Astrology in 1676, which included this very observational take on cazimi.

Geoffrey
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4985
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Geoffrey

Some other perspectives on cazimi from a thread I opened a few years back:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4348

The original approach to cazimi seems to have based on planets in partile conjunction by degree. The Greeks talked about planets 'synodical' with the Sun i.e. in partile conjunction and this was seen as strong dignity. Persian astrologers like Sahl used a 1 degree defintion for cazimi. Not sure who first developed the idea of narrowing this down to just minutes. On this basis cazimi was a much more common situation in ancient and early medieval astrology than in the definition used by the early modern astrologers like Lilly or Coley. Clearly, Coley's definition is very rare indeed!

Mark
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‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 380
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Mark. Your thread explored the historical origins of cazimi in great detail, but I was really wanting some experience by current day astrologers from actual charts that they have perused. Have they (you) found cazimi important as a fortitude when defined by Lilly? If yes, was it because in that instance, the cazimi was as defined by Coley?

Thanks

Geoffrey
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 1:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I understand Ganivet missed the New Moon in one of his professional horarys.

As in the Election of Obama as President of the USA in 2008 in this thread the Moon was Cazimi for John McCain, Obama's opponent at it proved dissasterous for McCain as in the thread:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3803&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=15

Quote:
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 286
Location: Reno, Nevada
Posted: Mon Oct 20, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In reviewing this horary, I found on page 168 of 'Horary Astrology Plain & Simple, by Anthony Louis, that the New Moon, or as some authors say 'Lunation' destroys the Moon in a Cazimi influence; a detrimental debility.

Louis pointed out that a famous ancient astrologer, Ganivet in 1431 AD made a simular misreading about a Dean and his health and death.

But the Saturn on the Asc., and Merc retrograde definitely shows the astrologer was hampered in this McCain horary. And when Merc went direct I found it in this book.

So McCain will dissasterously loose the election and with his tenth unaspected he will not be in office by this horary.

Clinton Soule


So the Moon is Not blessed when Cazimi like most planets it is a Lunation, a term Ancients and their repective peoples feared so badly that two warring nations would depart when a battle was about to happen during a Lunation as too many widows would be made on both sides.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know
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