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Contacts in a horary chart, how made?

 
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 8:50 pm    Post subject: Contacts in a horary chart, how made? Reply with quote

The querent and his company had been in a legal dispute with Mr X, which had finally run into the ground with Mr X giving up his pursuit before the case reached the Sheriff's court. However, the protracted legal arm wrestling had been physically and mentally draining for the querent, who asked if Mr X would contact him again or was this now the end of the matter?



The ascendant is for the querent and is in Libra. Venus, ruler of the ascendant, sits in Gemini in the 9th house. Mr X is the "open and profess'd enemy" and so is Mars, ruler of the 7th, sitting in Libra in the 12th. Is the chart valid? Given the nature of the legal dispute, Mars certainly fits Mr X. And Venus in the 9th house of legal matters is where we might expect to find the querent.

We see that Venus is conjunct Jupiter in the 9th house. Who might that Jupiter be? It would seem that the querent had much help and support from a Mr Y who acted as an expert witness in the matter, and whose evidence finally took the steam out of Mr X's pursuit. I thus gave Jupiter to Mr Y.

Mars is 4 degrees away from a perfecting a trine with Jupiter. And 3 degrees later, Mars reaches the ascendant. I judged that Mr X would first contact Mr Y and then the querent. As for timing, with Mars in a cardinal sign and a cadent house, I judged one week for one degree.

So it was that four weeks later, Mr X sent an email out of the blue to Mr Y, attempting to justify his position. With the chart now 'hot' and the timing confirmed, it was surely a cast iron certainty that Mr X would contact the querent sometime in the forth week of August, and the moment was keenly anticipated.

But what sort of contact would it be? Would Mr X turn up personally and confront the querent, or would it just be another email? The querent did not relish the inevitable hostility of a personal encounter. I noted that Mars was peregrine and so did not have the energy for such a confrontation, but the querent was uneasy non-the-less. I regretted that I did not have the powers to see how the contact was to be made.

On the Monday of the forth week in August, the querent prepared covert video cameras to record the interaction, should Mr X decide to come in person. But in the event, the contact was in the form of an email, sent later that morning. The email was of a bombastic "I was right all along" sort and there was no hint of further storm clouds gathering.

The querent was relieved, but was this now "the end of the matter"? Note that the 4th house is ruled by Saturn, who has dignity in Libra and is in the 1st house. Note too that the Moon, disposed by Saturn, is within 2 degrees from perfecting a trine with Saturn. With the Moon in a fixed sign and a succedent house, I judged one month was one degree for horary timing, matching the movement of Mars to the ascendant. The Moon, having just left the 4th house, makes no further contact before leaving the sign, so this will be the end of the matter.

So there we are, a relatively straightforward case. The easy aspects all around and Mars peregrine in a cadent house did not promise further escalated confrontation, and so it proved. I wondered if Mr X would be amused or alarmed that his contact out of the 12th house with the querent was known about almost two months earlier, certainly many weeks before the idea occurred to Mr X himself?

But I am also left wondering if there was some way from this chart to see in what manner the contacts were to be made. Is there a way to differentiate face-to-face personal contact from a letter, or an email, or a note attached to an arrow buried in the querent's front door? I put the matter before the luminaries assembled here for hope of enlightenment.

Geoffrey
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StellarTiggy



Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 148

Posted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EDIT: I believe the contact, if it happens, will be via electronic means as this is the nature of Aquarius. Saturn in the 1st signifies delays.
And I believe it was a fantastic reading, not a "nice try"... No worries, I believe in myself and my abilities 100%

Everything says no with Venus separating from both Mars (disputes) and Jupiter. The only thing that strikes me is this Moon applying to its dispositor in querent's 1st, and I believe that is contact. I think this contact will be about something 5th house related, some kind of payoff from an investment or an issue with financial records. I don't believe any harm will come of this. I believe, according to this horary, the querent should be prepared for and embrace contact from Mr. X assuming no further harm will be committed.


Last edited by StellarTiggy on Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:30 am; edited 1 time in total
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice try Stellartiggy, but read what is writ under the chart..... Wink

Geoffrey
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
But I am also left wondering if there was some way from this chart to see in what manner the contacts were to be made. Is there a way to differentiate face-to-face personal contact from a letter, or an email, or a note attached to an arrow buried in the querent's front door?

Third House cusp is in Scorpio. Smile This shows the contact by e-mail, as Mars rules both 7th and 3rd.
As you said, it is quite straightforward.
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mars ruling the 7th and the 3rd is good Tzadde, but how do you get Scorpio = email?

Geoffrey
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't say that Scorpio = e-mail, I say that 3rd House = e-mail, and the cusp is in Scorpio, which links Mars, already ruler of 7th, to 3rd. It's that simple. Smile
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok Tzadde, I am probably having a Neptune moment here, but the 3rd house is (local) communications in general right? So why is the 3rd house link here an email rather than a letter, say?

Thanks for your patience,

Geoffrey
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1330

Posted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:45 pm    Post subject: Re: Contacts in a horary chart, how made? Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
[...]And Venus in the 9th house of legal matters is where we might expect to find the querent. [...]
Geoffrey

Hi Geoffrey,

is it your finding or do you follow some authority in assigning legal matters to the 9th house?

Johannes
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 6:41 am    Post subject: Re: Contacts in a horary chart, how made? Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:


Is it your finding or do you follow some authority in assigning legal matters to the 9th house?

Johannes


Hello Johannes

Olivia Barclay wrote, "Lilly includes lawyers in this (the 10th) house, but more modern writers say lawyers belong to the ninth. Perhaps the role of lawyers has changed." (1)

Quite so.

I will not go into the history of English law here, but suffice to say that the law and its role in society was changing very rapidly during the 17th century and has evolved vastly over the past 350 years. As with much else when looking at 'traditional' house assignations, we need to view them through the lens of the social history of those times and look carefully to see how such assignations relate to us today.

While Lilly, Coley and Partridge gave lawyers (even "Great Lawyers"), Magistrates and Judges to the 10th house, they were writing in a time when the law was basically what these very 10th house men of power and influence said it was. There was no Court of Appeal in those days. In a criminal trial, the accused was invariably either perempterily hanged or pardoned, so the notion of an appeal to the court's decision was not particularly relevent anyway.

However, there is second aspect to 'The Law', which is as a self consistent philosophical system worthy of study in its own right. The 17th century was also a time when when the Inns of Court (schools for lawyers, located in London) were rapidly becoming regarded as the third university in England. (Oxford and Cambridge were the only two extant 'universities' in England at that time.) The rich and the landed aristocracy started sending their sons to the Inns of Court for an education to fit them for the management of great estates and to advance with surity in the world of business and politics. So it is that we find Coley giving "Law" to the 9th house (2) and Gadbury - I think rather perceptively - actually giving lawyers to the 9th as, (and I paraphrase), they were seekers after truth like church-men.(3)

Coming then to the 20th century, Barbara Watters gives lawyers to the 9th house (4), but Lee Lehman (5) highlights the fact that the law can be considered as an either adversarial instrument or an academic enterprise. Lehman gives lawyers who represent you in a law court to the 2nd and lawyers who advise on general legal matters and prepares legal documents to the 9th. Many countries have a unified legal system where any lawyer may address a court on behalf of his client, so this separation may seem rather arbitrary. But the UK (and other Commonwealth countries) has a split legal system where "barristers" represent someone in a law court, and "solicitors" handle general legal matters.

This 2nd house assignation to law-suit lawyers is not arbitrary in an astrological sense either. In the 17th century, it was not common to have a lawyer represent you in court and people generally brought both civil and criminal prosecutions to the court themselves - or defended themselves - with the aid of such friends as they could muster. Lilly gives the 2nd house to "a man's friends and assistants" in a suit of law (6), the parallel being seconds in a duel. This has now evolved into the barristers of today's British courts, thus they are given to the 2nd house. But Lehman argues that any lawyer representing you in a law-suit anywhere should be given to the 2nd house. This is a good example of how house assignations may be seen to evolve with time.

So it is that today, a legal system or corpus of law is considered as a self contained, self consistant philosophical system, and similar in this respect to other philosophical systems such as science, (another word which was undergoing a rapid evolution in meaning during the 17th century), which Gadbury also gives to the 9th; and religions which everybody gives to the 9th. The men who advise on the law and who are learned in the law are also given to the 9th.

I feel justified on this account to give a concern for the law, or "legal matters" in general to the 9th.

Geoffrey

(1) 'Horary Astrology Rediscovered' page 58
(2) 'Key to the Whole Art of Astrology' page 124
(3) 'Doctrine of Nativities' page 58
(4) 'Horary Astrology and the Judgement of Events' page 66
(5) 'The Martial Art of Horary Astrology' page 37
(6) 'Christian Astrology' page 51
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
Ok Tzadde, I am probably having a Neptune moment here, but the 3rd house is (local) communications in general right? So why is the 3rd house link here an email rather than a letter, say?

Thanks for your patience,

Geoffrey

To my knowledge, there is nothing specific that may help us to tell an e-mail from a letter from a 3rd House perspective, rather from the present time perspective, when it's more convenient to send an e-mail than a letter for practical reasons (time, effort, money). Also, these times it's more likely (or easier) to find out an e-mail address than a postal address.
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Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
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