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NRA chart

 
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1763
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:09 pm    Post subject: NRA chart Reply with quote

NRA chart set for noon in absence of a specific time..

I associate mars/pluto contacts with the dynamics around the martial nature of power and control... I believe folks who have these types of contacts are more keenly aware of these type dynamics.. the concept of owning a gun has a lot to do with having some martial power and control in a situation so it seems to me fitting that this conjunction appears in the chart for the National Rifle Association. The transit of the outer planets(pluto/uranus) in the vicinity of this mars/pluto conjunction(and square to venus) would seem to suggest the need for a redefining of the nra and it's role in american life and politics. whether this is done thru some initiative on the part of others, or whether it comes from inside the nra I don't know - probably both.. apparently the NRA is the most 'powerful' lobby in the USA.

just re-reading my post now! it is interesting as I made this first paragraph on the fly without realizing I was discussing a passing transit of pluto to the mars/saturn conjunction in the chart! Indeed it is the mars/saturn conjunction that i could talk about instead.. some of the associations I make of pluto might be better associated with saturn as some of the imagery might be very similar. Obviously saturn/mars conjunctions do share a particular need or obsession around these same issues of control and power.. as someone else pointed out on another thread - both saturn and mars in each others sign at the moment might tend to heighten a greater awareness in those who have these types of connections in there chart.. it would seem that the NRA would be in focus as a result of these coincidences..

I associate the jupiter/uranus conjunction as a freedom loving aspect.. whether this is based on constitutional positions taken, or more generally the ownership and freedom to own any type of weapons needs to be questioned in the light of yesterdays horrific event.. saying one can't politicize an event such as this is just an attempt to shut down the kinds of conversation that need to happen for these types of events to not happen anymore.

I am not exactly sure what they implication is for the transit of the nodal axis on the sun here, but it would seem to me that the leadership of the nra has it's ass up it's head if it is going to continue to want to allow the ownership of assault weapons like the ones used in the event of yesterday to stand.. as I understand it Clinton changed this, but the law lapsed under bush so that we have people who can legally own weapons that can do a lot of destruction, more then would seem necessary.. also, the transiting sun happens to sit on the nodal axis for this chart - so a repeated theme here with node/sun conjunction..



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Last edited by james_m on Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:31 pm; edited 1 time in total
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 79

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Using the same date and time as James but relocating the chart to Albany, NY ( could just as well have been Newtown, CT) and placing the chart for the conjunction of Mars and Pluto in right ascension (Nov 22, 6:22 am, EST) around it shows the conjunction at 278░39' on the NRA speculative chart's Mars (278░30') and Saturn (277░40').

The Mars-Pluto conjunction chart has Venus (214░57') conjunct Saturn (214░40) both square the speculative chart's Uranus (123░32').

The NRA's Mars-Saturn conjunction squares the charter chart's Venus at 189░19'. Transiting Pluto at 279░15' in yesterday's tragedy was square to that Venus.

Bob

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Juan



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 210
Location: San JosÚ, Costa Rica

Posted: Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If I calculate transits sidereally and focus exclusively on 1-degree conjunctions and oppositions something stands out:

Mars NRA = 7,44 Capricorn
Moon school shooting = 8,42 Capricorn (14h40m UT)
(NOTE: the Moon is here precession-corrected to 1871 to account for precession)
orb = 0,58'

and if I consider the close Moon/Pluto conjunction then it is an exact sidereal hit:

transiting Moon = 8,42 Capricorn (precession-corrected)
transiting Pluto = 6,44 Capricorn (precession-corrected)
midpoint = 7,43 Capricorn
Mars NRAssociation = 7,44 Capricorn
orb = 0,01'

Juan
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1763
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

usa bill of rights date i get is dec 15 1791. today is the anniversary and i believe it is part of the argument that the nra uses for the right to own guns, semi automatic weapons and what not..

there are a few interesting coincidences to this chart which i have set to noon new york.. the sun position is the same degree as the tragic event of yesterday.. the mars position is the same degree as that of obama's chart. not sure what if anything to make of that.

another interesting coincidence is the present uranus/pluto square by transit- a long running transit, and the close opposition in the bill of rights chart.. add to this how that opposition in the nra chart between the sun/pluto lines up very closely to nra pluto.. more coin-cidoinks for the astro-log fire..



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Last edited by james_m on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
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Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its actually the Second amendment to the constitution that discusses the idea of citizens having the right to hold guns.

Although the reference to citizens being in 'militias' shows the historical context was for those in local militias defending the nation as happened in the revolutionary war against the British colonial army.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution

A long way from well armed sociopaths walking into shopping malls, cinemas and schools and slaying innocent men, women and children.

Mark
_________________
''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus


Last edited by Mark on Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1763
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

from your link
"The historical link between the English Bill of Rights and the Second Amendment, which both codify an existing right and do not create a new one, has been acknowledged by the U.S. Supreme Court."

i believe i have the date right along with folks referring to this as the bill of rights, or is it just the 2nd 'ahem' end-ment?????
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Dec 16, 2012 1:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James,

Sorry to be a pedant. Its just 'The Bill of Rights' is a generic term referring to the first 10 amendments to the US constitution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Bill_of_Rights

We are specifically discussing the 2nd amendment which discusses the right of citizens to bear arms.

Astrologically though the chart data will be the same as the first 10 amendments were ratified by the necessary number of states (3/4 quarters) on the 15th Dec 1791. This occurred when the state of Virginia ratified the amendments. (actually there were 12 amendments to begin with but only 10 got the required approval by the states).

Mark
_________________
''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi there -

Quote:
I am not exactly sure what they implication is for the transit of the nodal axis on the sun here, but it would seem to me that the leadership of the nra has it's ass up it's head if it is going to continue to want to allow the ownership of assault weapons like the ones used in the event of yesterday


The transiting node points us towards the impact of eclipses on the natal chart. In this case, the Nov. 13 2012 solar eclipse occurred at 21 SC 57 (Michelsen's Tables of Planetary Phenomena, 2nd ed.). This is very close to the SO/PL midpoint in the NRA chart, and semisquare to the Mars-Saturn conjunction in Capricorn. The disturbing transiting Mars conjunct Pluto on the natal Mars-Saturn conjunction was also semisquare the eclipse point.

By any account is this is a major hit on the NRA chart. Whether it presages a power struggle or crisis within the organisation remains to be seen. Perhaps we will see the full impact of this eclipse on the NRA when transit Saturn moves over the eclipse degree.

Best wishes.

Ed
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1763
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi ed,

that is indeed true about transiting nodal axis on the sun location, but just how it pans out is an open question.. i suspect a question over the leadership and direction of the nra is floating around and in the process of unfolding.
i was looking at both of the leaders charts just the other day thanks to marjorie orr bringing them up.. interestingly both the men - have a sun in taurus, or scorpio and are experiencing or will experience something similar with the eclipse cycle.. also the saturn transit coincides with this in the next 2 years as well.. my feeling is something will 'give' in the internal structure of the nra.. i don't believe it is just wishful thinking on my part either.. something has to give, in spite of the fixity of this nra chart!

thanks for sharing and welcome to the forum!!

here is a link to marjorie orr's comments.
http://www.star4cast.com/index2f.asp?page=forum_article.asp?id=1

comic
http://www.gocomics.com/patoliphant/2012/12/19
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astralwanderer



Joined: 20 Dec 2012
Posts: 18
Location: Southwest England

Posted: Mon Dec 24, 2012 7:29 pm    Post subject: Thanks Reply with quote

Thanks James - it is an interesting scenario. I noticed that Wayne LaPierre was closely tied into this eclipse too, and into the Sun-Pluto axis in the NRA chart.

I'm looking forward to being in the forum.

All the best. Ed
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Tom
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Location: New Jersey, USA

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 4:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an FYI, there are two recent US Supreme Court Cases Columbia v Heller (2008) and McDonald v Chicago (2009 or 2010) which upheld the right to bear arms as a fundamental right in the US. Although, by not striking down any laws, it opened the door for lots of lawsuits in this matter. The 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution is oddly worded, but so is the 10th. Regardless, the Court said the right to own guns is fundamental - not an extension of something else like belonging to a militia.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

back in the 1700's when they wrote this law, slavery was cool too as were a number of issues like women not voting and etc. etc... at what point does a country consider a revision or a refinement of what they hold dear circa the 1700's? i don't know how usa law works, but i like to think people eventually move forward into the present, or revise laws to reflect a new reality based on the present.. assault weapons capable of firing off 30 and more bullets in less then a minute didn't exist back then..
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Tom
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Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The law is the law and the Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land. Every state in the union swore to uphold it. Slavery was outlawed via the Constitution. Women's voting rights were ratified by the Constitution. The US Supreme Court has defined what the 2nd Amendment means.

PS There is no such thing as an "assault rifle.": It has no legal definition. Automatic weapons, such as the kind soldiers use are illegal for private use in the USA, and always have been. Semi automatic weapons are legal for sale in the US dependent on the state laws. Semi automatic means one trigger pull fires one bullet. In fact most gun regulations are state not federal laws. Illinois and by extension Chicago have the strictest gun regulations in the country. Chicago has the highest murder by gun rate followed by Washington DC who has the even stricter hand gun laws. Connecticut has very strict gun laws.

Instead of looking at the NRA chart in connection with this, why not the ACLU? The American Civil Liberties Union helped defeat a bill in Connecticut this past September that would made it a lot easier to put people in mental institutions that are over the age of 18. It seems that under current law it is virtually impossible to commit someone unless they agree to go. The ACLU argued for the right to be crazy. Lanza's mother was filling out the endless forms and making preparations that perhaps she would not have had to do for her son. Some say this is the trigger for his actions. We'll never know. But it is possible he could have been hospitalized with less stringent requirements. Instead his mother and 25 others are dead. The NRA failed in Connecticut. The gun laws are far stricter than they would have liked. The ACLU succeeded. You're after the wrong organization.
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1763
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Wed Dec 26, 2012 8:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi tom,
thanks for giving your perspective on this.. i was thinking how talking politics is not what this board is about.. i think it is fair for an alternative response be given and you've done just this.. finding a start time other then 1920 for the aclu seems very difficult to do.. if you come up with an incorporation date for them, please share it.. someone with access to princton university archives could possibly get it here..
http://findingaids.princeton.edu/collections/MC001.01/c002353
edit - i am finding jan 19 1920 new york.. the chart below is set for sunrise, in the absence of a specific time..


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