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US Presidential Contest 2012-Obama vs Romney
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Sep 29, 2012 10:01 pm    Post subject: US Presidential Contest 2012-Obama vs Romney Reply with quote

Hello All,

Its quite belated but I thought we better open a thread on the upcoming Presidential election this year. I'm sorry that personal commitments have stopped me doing this earlier.

Ok so we know the contenders.

Here are their respective charts:

Mitt Romney



Quote:
NB: Astrodatabank sources the time for Romney's birth as A rated. The data notes state the following: Frances McEvoy quotes him; PT notes that on June 24, 2007 the Boston Globe ran a feature article quoting his father for 10 AM


Barack Obama



To get the ball rolling i thought I would highlight 3 different methods that have predicted the outcome in 2012.

Firstly, an excellent article by Nina Gryphon highlighting her painstaking research into the US Aries charts prior to US Presidential contests. Nina has certainly done her homework and includes research on Aries ingress charts in US election years going back to 1880!

http://gryphonastrology.com/blog/2012/03/17/forecast-u-s-presidential-election-2012/

Next a couple of methods that seek to delineate the winner based on the astrological Moon on the day of the Presidential inauguration.

Firstly, a method utilising the final dispositor of the Moon advocated by Mr Stellium here on Skyscript from 2009:

http://tmp.skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=4748

Here is his full article:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/20103879/Democrat-or-Republican-The-Moon-Dispositor-Theory-Astrology

Secondly, a method advocated by Skyscript member Bob. Here is his method.

http://i.imgur.com/N1Iqz.gif

Interesting that all 3 methods predict Obama as the winner in 2012. There seems to be something of an astrological consensus building up on this.

A UAC panel of 5 astrologers, from differing traditions, also recently unanimously predicted an Obama win too:

http://politicalastrologyblog.com/2012/06/01/uac-2012-presidential-panel-predictions/

What do you think? It would be especially interesting to hear from anyone who wants to swim against the astrological tide and predict a Romney win!

Mark
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 1828
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

marjorie orr is going against the tide.. i articulated some of my thoughs for obama winning on her forum a month or 2 ago.. she thinks oct is not going to be so kind for obama, whereas romney will do better... i haven't followed it too closely since i left..

regulusastrology did comment in what seemed like a lean towards a romney win a few months ago on this thread that some of us also said a few thiings.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6766

thanks for starting another post on this!
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi James

Thanks for the steer to Marjorie Orr. She is certainly predicting a very tough period ahead for Obama but she is rather hedging her bets somewhat by suggesting these transits to Obama's chart could reflect International problems. Personally, I dont think transits are enough to judge such matters. Romney certainly needs to recover some ground to have a chance. The TV debates are going to be crucial. Romney has apparently been taking part in mock debates with his Republican advisers for months.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/us-election/9576334/US-elections-Mitt-Romney-prepares-for-key-televised-election-debate.html

From the article:

Quote:
Mr Romney has been working on his debate preparations for months at his mansion in New Hampshire, often in hotel rooms during campaign stops and most intensively for three days recently at friend's secluded home in rural Vermont.

In these mock debates, the role of Mr Obama has been played by Rob Portman, the Ohio senator, who has become a familiar face in Mr Romney's travelling entourage. He also had the chance to hone his debating skills during the long and fractious series of on-stage encounters with his party rivals during the primary battle.


Marjorie Orr wrote on her website a few days ago:
Quote:
US Election - polls about to shift From: Marjorie. (27 Sep 2012 17:43):
September was always going to be an upbeat month for Barack Obama as he streaks ahead in the polls. Tr Pluto is sextile his lucky, confident Sun/Jupiter midpoint until October 1st. But as he loses that upbeat influence he also runs into a deflating tr Saturn square Jupiter from 6th to 14th October.

Expect to see a swing to Mitt Romney in October as on his chart tr Pluto starts to trine his Jupiter/Uranus midpoint from 2nd October till late November - suggesting a lucky break is coming his way. With another equally helpful influence as tr Uranus opposes his Jupiter/Pluto midpoint from Nov 13th till early January.

Barack Obama will be struggling through October and most of November with tr Pluto opposing his Sun/Moon midpoint and square his Neptune/Pluto - suggesting a fair amount of anguish and inner turmoil. He has tr Saturn square his Mercury in the final days of October which looks very downbeat especially since it affects that central Mercury opposition Jupiter square Neptune Fixed T Square of his.

This may not all be election woes of course. He's still president and the Eurozone crisis getting worse by the day will have serious knock on effects to the US economy plus the Middle East is even more tinderboxy than usual with Netanyahu beating the war drums over Iran and Syria heading further into the heart of darkness. Plus whatever unexpected other crises may blow up.



Chris Brennan and Patrick Watson have done a podcast on the US Presidential Election

http://politicalastrologyblog.com/2012/09/19/podcast-on-the-astrology-of-the-presidential-election/
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james_m



Joined: 05 Dec 2011
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Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

what astrologer nowadays doesn't hedge their bet? it is generally my impression of astrology today.. call it the modern way maybe..less fatalistic perhaps..

if you search back on her site you will find her original comments on a romney win..
i am sorry, but i am unable to do any chart stuff while away or i would offer my reason for why i think obama wins..
cheers james
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 2:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello James,

I have always found Marjorie Orr's site a bit awkward to navigate as its listed chronologically rather than by topic.

However, here is the post favouring Romney I think you are referring to:

Quote:
Next USA Presidency - a minefield ahead From: Marjorie. (07 Sep 2012 09:32): On the birth times available Mitt Romney looks as if he has a lot more going for him astrologically speaking at the Election and Inauguration. He has a lucky tr Pluto trine Jupiter/Uranus in November and useful aspects to his MC. Ann Romney similarly looks well supported by Jupiter whereas Barack and Michelle Obama are singularly lacking uplift.

Whoever wins will do so on a Mercury retrograde election of which there have been two in the recent past. One was the 2000 GWB/Gore disaster and previously in 1980 when Reagan won a convincing majority to bury Jimmy Carter. So would seem to favour the GOP tho' a sample of two is hardly evidence.

The Inauguration will either be Sunday 20th or Monday 21st January 2013. Whichever it is, it'll be a more dangerous Presidency than Barack Obama's first term. The Obama Inauguration chart hinted at dreams too grand to be realised but not much in the way of disasters. Whereas the up and coming 2013 Inauguration chart looks risky, with high aggravation and acute frustration with the Sun = Mars/Pluto = Uranus/North Node and (if at noon) MC = Saturn/Pluto = Mars/Uranus. So sudden shocking changes wouldn't be a surprise.

If Mitt Romney does get in he's certainly walking into a danger zone on his personal chart - however it plays out whether politically, economically or literally - with his Solar Arc Mars already stressed by having tr Pluto trine from the Inauguration onwards, is also squaring his natal Pluto, exact by this time next year but in effect in the months before as well. And that is dead halt time. Ann Romney also looks seriously jangled next year.

If Barack Obama gets in again then he has his Solar Arc Mars in the car-collision square to his Sun exact next February but in effect in the months before and after that.

Depending on when the Inauguration kicks off (normally noon-ish) there could be health/employment issues with Saturn in Scorpio in the 6th. But no matter the time tr Uranus will move to square the Inauguration Pluto from late April, thro' May 2013 and returning late Sept into October 2013 and Feb/March 2014 which will certainly rock the Presidency on its axis.


I would also be interested in your personal astrological reasons for favouring an Obama win here on Skyscript. I have joined this topic quite late myself.

However, I dont quite agree with you James about all astrologers sitting on the fence here or equivocating. Quite a few have come out very definitely in favour of a clear winner.

I already referred to Nina Gryphon and the unanimous UAC panel position.

Moreover, here is a piece by Chris Brennan and Patrick Watson predicting an Obama win using the hellenistic technique of zodiacal releasing.

http://politicalastrologyblog.com/2012/04/29/prediction-for-the-2012-us-presidential-election/

James_M wrote:
Quote:
Regulus astrology did comment in what seemed like a lean towards a romney win a few months ago on this thread that some of us also said a few thiings.

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?t=6766



Regulus Astrology has offered us an excellent and very informative article. However, it has little to say specifically on the outcome of the 2012 contest. The only relevant astrological comment I can see is that the transiting North Node will will fall in the bounds of Romney's Moon/Jupiter conjunction. This would seem to favour him. However, this is clearly not a full delineation or an outright prediction on the result.

What is interesting though is that Regulus Astrology, like many other astrological commentators, thinks this contest will be very close.This supports what the electoral pundits are now telling us too.


Mark
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''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

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Last edited by Mark on Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:59 pm; edited 3 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Sep 30, 2012 9:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Another article predicting the outcome of the next Presidential election.

This time from Curtis Manwaring on his The Lost Horoscope Astrology X Files website:

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/x-files/election2012.html

Although having some concerns about the precise natal data for both candidates Curtis gives the nod to Obama as the likeliest winner.

Mark
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 948
Location: Delhi

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 3:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a battle of nodes.
Obama's SN is in Romney's 10th and vice-versa.

Unfortunately for Romney, his Jupiter is giving Obama's M.C a lot of strength and Obama is returning no such favours.

Obama wins.
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 80

Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 5:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My charts, with annotations, supporting my belief that President Obama will be re-elected can be seen at the following link. The last 2 charts are as basic as can be done, one being transits to his progressed chart at his birth place for a 2013 inauguration and the other transits to his natal located to Washington, D.C., for the same day (a private ceremony as Jan 20 falls on a Sunday and notes for the public ceremony on the 21st). I posted this months ago on other forums where I post more frequently but forgot that I had posted here. Click on the thumbnails to see a larger version, then click on that image to zoom it.

http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/unique_astrology/Obama%2012%20and%2013/
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pankajdubey wrote:
Quote:
This is a battle of nodes.
Obama's SN is in Romney's 10th and vice-versa.

Unfortunately for Romney, his Jupiter is giving Obama's M.C a lot of strength and Obama is returning no such favours.

Obama wins.


Thanks for your comment.

An interesting observation. However, are you basing a prediction on just this? This would imply Romney losing a contest with Obama at any given time due to this single aspect of natal potentiality. What about the timing dimension of prediction rather than just natal determinism? For example what about the transits, progressions, directions or time lords?

Mark
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''Man is troubled not by events, but by the meaning he gives them"

Epictetus


Last edited by Mark on Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

unique_astrology wrote:
Quote:
My charts, with annotations, supporting my belief that President Obama will be re-elected can be seen at the following link.


Thank you for sharing your research here too!

Mark
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 7:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I said it would be interesting to see if any astrologers decided to swim against the growing astrological tide and predict Romney as the more likely victor in November. Its professionally a high risk strategy going against the majority. Still if someone pulls it off think of the astrological kudos!

One astrologer who has predicted Romney as the more likely winner is Oregon based astrologer Michael O'Reilly on the Neptune Cafe site (published as Michael Wolfstar)

http://www.neptunecafe.com/election2012.html

O'Reilly is a modern astrologer and his prediction is largely based on transits and secondary progressions for both candidates on inauguration day. O'Reilly also examines transits to the SP charts. In particular O'Reilly believes the condition of the candidates MC by transit and SP is vital.

Like Marc Penfield O'Reilly is a strong advocate of the Scorpio rising chart for the USA. He has written a book on this subject. This seems to be another factor influencing his view favouring Romney. He argues the imminent ingress of Saturn into Scorpio will favour a conservative candidate like Romney. O'Reilly states:

Quote:
The point of all this is that when traditional, austere Saturn enters Scorpio, the national mood tends to turn toward leaders who are fiscally conservative. Over the last century, this has meant electing Republican candidates who are exceptionally friendly to Big Business. The last time Saturn was in Scorpio, Ronald Reagan was president, and before that, Eisenhower in the 1950s. Going back one Saturn cycle earlier to the late Roaring 20s brought us the “laissez-faire” president, Calvin Coolidge. Republican William McKinley won the 1896 election by pooling the support of the leaders of large corporations and major banks when Saturn was previously in Scorpio. Here is an extraordinarily clear and easy to understand cycle that has brought consistent results. Naturally, it favors a Romney victory.


Whilst I dont use the Scorpio rising chart (1776) myself I do think there is a Scorpio focus to American government. Its interesting that many charts for US government are Scorpio rising. In particular the charts for the first continental congress, the articles of confederation and the Federal constitution chart. The foundational Aries ingress for the federal government in 1789 is also Scorpio rising.

Looking at American parties the Republican party chart (1854) does have a Scorpio Moon.

Controversially O'Reilly thinks that the left leaning bias of many astrologers could be clouding their objectivity in making an accurate prediction:

Quote:
However, many political astrologers - perhaps 80 percent - have an inherent bias toward the progressive movement, and thus turn a blind eye to a possible Republican win.


Mark
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unique_astrology



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had not always been convinced that President Obama would be re-elected. Here is a post I made in April to another forum.

"Until this past week I had convinced myself that President Obama would be re-elected in a close election. Now I think Congress will select the President and that it will be Romney (GAG). Here is why I think that.

http://s46.photobucket.com/albums/f111/unique_astrology/Congress%20Picks%20Romney/

His and the Congress' actions may be what is behind the Grand Square in April 2014 affecting the Sibly Sun and Saturn. Massive public uprising, not an attack from outside.

Bob"

I changed my mind after the Supreme Court's decision on the Affordable Care Act near the end of June.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 01, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Unique_Astrology wrote:
Quote:
I changed my mind after the Supreme Court's decision on the Affordable Care Act near the end of June.


Hi Bob,

Well my personal motto is 'always reserve the right to change your mind' At least before November 6th!

Mark
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
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Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:
pankajdubey wrote:
Quote:
This is a battle of nodes.
Obama's SN is in Romney's 10th and vice-versa.

Unfortunately for Romney, his Jupiter is giving Obama's M.C a lot of strength and Obama is returning no such favours.

Obama wins.


Thanks for your comment.

An interesting observation. However, are you basing a prediction on just this? This would imply Romney losing a contest with Obama at any given time due to this single aspect of natal potentiality. What about the timing dimension of prediction rather than just natal determinism? For example what about the transits, progressions, directions or time lords?

Mark


Of course, there could be a detailed analysis but even then I would base my decision on this factor- Romney helps out Obama. If they were in the same team - by co-operation. If in opposite team - by mistakes.

I thought of this as a duel and turn synastry on its head.
-------------------
Is it possible that natal is the war, the directions and transit are the battles and horary just outright espionage Smile

PD
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Mark
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Posted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I thought i would share another interesting link predicting the outcome of the election from the astrologer Lauren Edmond.

http://artcharts.com/astrology_blog/astrology-for-the-2012-us-presidential-election/

Lauren utilises a method based on the sunrise chart for the day of the election. Lauren explains that she first came across this technique in the book by Sylvia De Long entitled ''Charting Presidential Elections'.

Lauren states:

Quote:
Ms. De Long shares her system for judging US Presidential election charts, starting with the first time the election was held between a Democrat and a Republican (1856). I’ve been studying and using the system outlined in this concise and well-researched book since 1999, and it has proven very accurate, and an interesting study of American history. The Election chart is an excellent astrological study project, whether you’re looking in hindsight or into the future.....Surfing the internet recently, there are many astrologers using original methods to determine the outcome of the election. These methods have not been tested so they may or may not be accurate. The method outlined and studied in “Charting Presidential Elections” was arrived at by researching and charting every Presidential election since the start of the Republican party in 1856, when James Buchanan, a Democrat, was the winner.

Ms De Long advises using the sunrise chart for Washington DC on Election Day since this shows which candidate’s influence is stronger on that day. In early November (and only a few days into Standard Time), the difference is 15 minutes– that means the Sun is conjunct the Ascendant in both charts (sunrise is 6:46 am and the polls open at 7:00 am). I prefer the 7:00 am chart because the Sun is a major significator in this chart– the Sun rules the Midheaven, and the Midheaven describes the winner. In the 7:00 am chart the Sun is near the Ascendant due to the time the sun rises in early November, but not necessarily conjunct. This extra unknown variable gives the Sun position more validity, and provides more information.


The basic rules set out by De long for this technique are:
- Jupiter represents the Republican Party
- Saturn represents the Democrats
- The MC ruler represents the incumbent
- The IC is the challenger
- The eastern hemisphere (left side) of the chart is the incumbent party
- The western hemisphere (right side) is the challenger


Lauren makes the point picked up by many astrologers that the mercury retrograde on the day election could lead to a delayed and/or disputed result.

Quote:
And now for the big twist that could change everything — Mercury stations Retrograde ON Election Day — the exact time of the station is 6:04 pm EST on Election Day, November 6, 2012. This is a strong indicator for changes of mind, belief, fact, legalities, and fiction since Mercury is in stationing in Sagittarius. It could be that no winner is determined on Election Day. And since Mercury is in mutual reception with Jupiter, it could wind up in the courts. Or being undecided for awhile.


Question: Why do so many astrologers consider the Republicans to come under the influence of Jupiter and the Democrats Saturn? Many might assume a liberal party like the Democrats should be under Jupiter and the more conservative Republicans would better fit Saturn. What is the explanation for this paradox? I think I have discovered the astrological explanation for this but would welcome any comments or feedback

Mark
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