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Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding
Book II of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Compiled by Deborah Houlding
The Babylonian Astrolabe: the Calendar of Creation, by Rumen K. Kolev
Reviewed by Gill Zukovskis

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Will I be successul

 
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 77

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 3:39 pm    Post subject: Will I be successul Reply with quote

So, as everyone followed in a previous thread, I got the job and I start in a few weeks. So obviously I want to know if I am going to be successful in my new role.

I have no idea how to interpret this type of question so any assistance would help. the only thing I see in this chart is that I (Mars) am in the detriment of the employer (Mercury). not a great start to the reading.

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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 366
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 6:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hmm.

Moon on the North Node, in Scorpio, in the first house. Saturn on the cusp of the 12th. Neptune at 'the bendings', square the Moon, on the cusp of the 4th.... Do you really want to read this chart?

Luckily, the Moon is also void of course, (I think Mercury is too far into Libra for a sextile to apply before the Moon leaves Scorpio)

If I were you, I would say this chart is not safe to read and wait for a moment when you really need to know if you are going to be successful at this job.

Too, you might like to think about what being "successful" means to you. You know how much you are going to earn, so its not a second house issue. Do you mean satisfy your bosses? Get on with your fellow workers? Gain a lot of good contacts to further improve your career? Improve the financial efficiency of the company?

With the above in mind, you might consider which house(s) will represent success for you and need to be in good shape. When the 'horary moment' comes and you really need to answer this question, this issue will probably crystallize for you anyway.

Geoffrey
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 77

Posted: Thu Sep 20, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha, thanks Geoffery,

I want to know if I will be at this place for a long time and whether it will be a successful tenure.

I can take it, After all, "will I get the job", was wrong...

no offense please, just trying to figure out why.
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1319

Posted: Fri Sep 21, 2012 9:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Following the teachings of Lilly, the Moon is not void of course here. Very soon she is leaving her detriment and will perfect a sextile to Mercury, Lord of the tenth, with mutual reception in each other's face - thus showing success for the querent.
A little problem could first be his strength, his significator being in his own domicile and a fixed sign. And second the Sun, certainly also and possibly the significator of higher knowings for the querent's profession: when the Sun makes Mercury being under his beams, the employer could feel a bit like standing in the shadow of the querent's 'brilliant' knowings - perhaps.

Johannes
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
Following the teachings of Lilly, the Moon is not void of course here. Very soon she is leaving her detriment and will perfect a sextile to Mercury,


True, according to Lilly, the Moon and Mercury are within the moieties of their orbs, which would be 9.75 degrees. But I think most astrologers these days would not admit to two planets being within aspect - particularly a sextile aspect - if perfection was almost ten degrees distant. In this chart they are seven degrees distant and will be six and a half degrees distant when the Moon leaves the sign, which I personally think is too far for a sextile aspect.

Lilly also said that a question "is not safe to judge when the Moon is in the later degrees of a sign..." and you can't get much later than the Moon in this chart!

It is interesting that in the table of terms, the malefics always occupy the later degrees of the signs. As the table of terms was created very soon after the equal signed zodiac was developed 2,500 years ago, it would seem that historically, the ends of the signs was always regarded as "not safe" since the earliest times.

Geoffrey
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
Posts: 77

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 12:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Awesome, thank you both. I certainly like the reading of johannes, and certainly understand that astrology is an art. Again thank you and I wil try to remember to update in the moths to come
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1319

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:


[1.] True, according to Lilly, the Moon and Mercury are within the moieties of their orbs, which would be 9.75 degrees. But I think most astrologers these days would not admit to two planets being within aspect - particularly a sextile aspect - if perfection was almost ten degrees distant. In this chart they are seven degrees distant and will be six and a half degrees distant when the Moon leaves the sign, which I personally think is too far for a sextile aspect.

[2.] Lilly also said that a question "is not safe to judge when the Moon is in the later degrees of a sign..." and you can't get much later than the Moon in this chart!

[3.] It is interesting that in the table of terms, the malefics always occupy the later degrees of the signs. As the table of terms was created very soon after the equal signed zodiac was developed 2,500 years ago, it would seem that historically, the ends of the signs was always regarded as "not safe" since the earliest times.

Geoffrey

1. To put orbs into the context of aspects ís not a very classical point of view to my knowledge but more late 19th century. In horary I stick to Lilly and other classical authors.

2. Your quotation of Lilly (CA, p. 122, by the way) is a general rule. But here we see the special moment that the Moon is applying to the perfection of her sextile with the significator in mutual reception!

3. Still nowadays the zodiac is "equal signed", but we can not speak of "the table" of terms, because there are several different tables . . . and even though the ends might be "not safe", as you say, Lilly and others (I know: not all) let the Moon perfect her application through this "not safe" zone and even across the border of the signs.

Johannes


Last edited by johannes susato on Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Rookie



Joined: 13 Aug 2009
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Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks again Johannes, for you supporting reasoning for your reading. Based on your reading I am really excited to venture into this new position. It is certainly a huge career jump for me, and as such, I am a bit nervous to know if it is above my head. I think not, and your reading certainly calms me.
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
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Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
Following the teachings of Lilly, the Moon is not void of course here. Very soon she is leaving her detriment and will perfect a sextile to Mercury, Lord of the tenth, with mutual reception in each other's face - thus showing success for the querent.

Johannes


If the mutual reception had been in triplicity or term, I might have tipped my hat to you Johannes.... But face? That is a bit weak in the circumstances isn't it?

And anyway, according to table of essential dignities in my copy of CA, the Moon in the last degree of Scorpio is in the face of Venus, not Mercury.

As for orbs in the context of aspects being 19th century - I refer to page 107 of CA. I think Lilly explains it very clearly there.

Geoffrey
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1319

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Rookie wrote:
Thanks again Johannes, for you supporting reasoning for your reading. Based on your reading I am really excited to venture into this new position. It is certainly a huge career jump for me, and as such, I am a bit nervous to know if it is above my head. I think not, and your reading certainly calms me.


All the best to you, Rookie! Thumbs up Very Happy
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1319

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 8:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:

[1] If the mutual reception had been in triplicity or term, I might have tipped my hat to you Johannes.... But face? That is a bit weak in the circumstances isn't it?

[2] And anyway, according to table of essential dignities in my copy of CA, the Moon in the last degree of Scorpio is in the face of Venus, not Mercury.

[3] As for orbs in the context of aspects being 19th century - I refer to page 107 of CA. I think Lilly explains it very clearly there.

[1] There is not only reception but an aspect too. And Lilly accepts every dignity as to reception.

[2] But perfecting the sextile with Mercury the Moon has already left Scorpio.

[3] You are right, Geoffrey, very clearly! I'm sorry me not having been clear enough.
The given orbs are the Planets' orbs, as you can see just there (CA, p. 107). Orbs did not belong to the single aspects but to the planets. The planets work within their orbs - bodily or by aspects; that means that the planets work within their orbs independently of a given conjunction or aspect (and its kind) at a time . . . at least until the 19th century.

Johannes
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