Rectification by guesswork

1
I wanted to look at the chart of pie-dodging chanteuse Amy Winehouse but Astrotheme gives the birth time as unknown (inconnue) It could prove a useful control for the obesity thread at least. I reckon she is Gemini Asc because "Evangeline Adams" says that they have slim arms and hands and are at risk of weakness of the lungs.Though a singer I gather that she has been diagnosed with emphysema at an unusually young age.

Birth data is Enfield Greater London on 14 Sept 1983. I guessed at 10:20 pm for the Asc. This is very rough and ready so I used whole sign houses. The moon just enters Capricorn aspecting Saturn in Scorpio. Capricorn is the 8th house and scorpio the sixth and I would interpret this as the danger that she faces from Class 'A' drugs.The 12th hse ruler Venus conjuncts Mars in the 3rd.

I wonder if I guessed right.

Matt

3
Hello matt23z,

Keep on guessing peoples' charts, it's a very effective practice for improving your skills as an astrologer. I will further add some important things to your suggestions.

Using your suggested chart, we first notice Amy's temperament to be a mixture of Sanguine and Choleric, the most extroverted of the possible mixtures. Her significator of manners is Saturn: having no planet present in the 1st, but Moon being in a Saturn-ruled sign and in sextile aspect to Saturn, this planet is our choice. Saturn is in the 6th and peregrine, indicating a rather bad nature of Saturn. Amy, as a sanguine-choleric person, won't express her Saturn in a introverted or solitary manner, but will show her sorrow and misery (due to drugs) openly to the public. If you look at some of her pictures, you understand what I mean.

Amy Winehouse is a famous, public person, so we would look for prominent fixed stars on the Ascendant or on the MC indicating great fame and honour.
We see here a 17th degree Gem ASC, which puts the first magnitude star Rigel into an eminent position. Rigel is of Jupiterian/Saturnian nature and is said to give "benevolence, honour, riches, happiness, glory, renown and inventive or mechanical ability" (according to Robson).

As for the next step, we look at the ASC ruler Mercury, which is her in person. Mercury is in the 5th, essentially strong in domicile and exaltation likewise. On the other hand it is retrograde, applying to conjunct the Sun and combust. In Traditional Astrology, the inferior planets Mercury and Venus combust in retrograde motion were judged similarly like superior planets in opposition to the Sun. They were seen as rebels, revolting against the King.

So this Mercury shows her person as being a rebel. What does Amy revolt against? The Sun rules her 4th house of the father, or more generally the house of the parents; it could also stand for authorities and public persons as the Sun is their natural significator.
Normally a planet combust of the Sun is said to be weakened significantly, but in this case Mercury has power over the Sun by being in Mercury's dignities. Amy will be a rebel, but also a successful one.
However, the rebellion will occur on the fields of having fun, consuming, sex and all the other things signified by the Venusian 5th house; this theme will be predominating most of her lifetime.

As a last vital step for making a correct guess of the birthchart we would check the Native's profession. The profession of a person is made of either Mercury, Venus or Mars (we take the most dominant of these three in the chart) together with this planet's aspects.
In Amy's case we see Venus angular in the 4th, conjunct Mars. Venusian Jobs are singers, actors, artists, perfumers, hairdressers, attendencies and so on. In our choice we must keep in mind that Amy is a sanguine-choleric person, a quite extroverted one. We must also keep in mind that Venus is ruled by the Sun (the public, fame) and that the Native has Rigel rising with the Ascendant (honours, fame): Amy will be a famous person, a "public person". So we see here, it is more likely that the Native will be a famous singer than an unobtrusive hairdresser.

Fine, we can see Amy's profession as a singer. Venus conjunct Mars: Amy Winehouse is not the graceful kind of singer, but a rough one. If we keep in mind that ASC ruler Mercury represents her rebel nature we get a kind of a rock-star, a scandalous singer, showing her "misery" (Saturn as Significator of Manners, ruler of the Moon, and in aspect to the Moon) in a extroverted manner (sanguine-choleric temperament) to the public (Saturn ruler of 10th). Her public image will predominantly be formed by her "rough" singing and her taking of drugs, because L10 Saturn is in a Mars-ruled sign indicating that her fame will come from the things signified by Mars. Mars rules her 12th house of drugs and is also conjunct Venus, a natural significator of drugs.


From here we could go further delineating all of her tiniest life facets, but I think this was enough to show that your guess of Amy's birthchart was very accurate, matt23z.


Greets,
Edward

4
Thanks for the book recommendation Yuzuru.The introduction alone is useful. Edward - thank for taking the trouble to delineate the chart and for your encouragement.

Regards

Matt

5
matt23z,

You should see the guessing and judging as partly fun, partly exercise - theory only won't make you a good astrologer, you also need a lot of practice. It's just like an art, you have to spend much time in order to excel in it. In Traditional Astrology, the principle is simple and plausible, but nonetheless judgement is demanding.

Many times the charts of celebrities don't base on the true birth-time and sometimes even don't have the right date. Be careful here, unless the time is given to the exact minute, I would rather try to "guess" the time myself. Don't work with general 12:00 AM charts, these are most often nonsense.

You are right to start off with the Ascendant, in Amy's case Gemini, giving the Native's Appearance. The Person itself is indicated by the ASC ruler. In case of famous and great persons you would also look at the MC/the 10th, because it is the house of fame and honour. Fixed stars of great magnitude near the ASC or the MC are always of great help in achieving mundane goals in the world, if the other indications concur herein.

A person with Aldebaran (martial, one of the four royal stars) rising with the Ascendant, for example, is said to have great strength, physically and mentally likewise, and therefore is said to achieve high responsibility positions, most often in armies - if the chart concurs. A good example for this is Tony Blair, who also has Mars on the Ascendant.
But if this person has, together with Aldebaran rising, e.g. Mars retrograde in Taurus conjunct Algol, the most malefic of the stars, and also in the 12th house of horrors, he might use his strength in a bad way and become a murderer. The German serial killer Fritz Haarmann, one of the most infamous murderers of the 20th century, had exactly this constellation in his birth chart.


You are welcome,
Edward

6
I did know about the Royal Stars being angular in the charts of prominent people but had not considered Rigel.I was a bit concerned about your example of serial killer with Mars Rx in Taurus as I have that placement near the MC.Then I noticed that it is nowhere near Algol.Looks like I will not be murdering anyone on the forum for not agreeing with my definition of Orientality and will go on bottling up my anger as usual!!

Regards

Matt

Re: Rectification by guesswork

8
mattG wrote: I reckon she is Gemini Asc because "Evangeline Adams" says that they have slim arms and hands...I guessed at 10:20 pm for the Asc.
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Winehouse,_Amy
Gemini rising


Prescient.

public battles with drug and alcohol addictions
MC=NE=AD - narcotics
MC=AR/Bacchus
NE=26sa26-28
AD=10ta47-26
NE/AD(3pi37) = MC (21:21:29 GMT +/- 4mins)

She released her debut album at age 20, on October 13, 2003.
solar arc SU trine MC (21:21:37 GMT)

She married Blake Fielder-Civil on May 18, 2007
transit JU opp. AS (21:21:35 GMT +/- ~5s)
solar arc AR(23ar12-47) trine VE(23le12-38)
solar arc MC square JU(ruler 7) (21:21:27 GMT)

Winehouse began binge drinking in 2008 after kicking a drug habit. By summer 2011, she had fallen into a pattern of abstaining for a few weeks, and then relapsing. One such relapse led to her death by alcohol intoxication in the morning hours of 23 July 2011.
solar arc SU = (MC=NE/AD=MA/SA) poisons, death
transit PL conj. 8th(Placidus)(21:21:39 GMT)
transit HA(0ca25) opp. MO(0cp25) exact to the arcsecond around 10-11am depending on what second one decided to rectify
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amy_Winehouse#Death
He observed her "laughing, listening to music and watching TV at 2 am the day of her death". According to the bodyguard, at 10 am he observed her lying on her bed and tried unsuccessfully to rouse her.