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Financial Significators in the Natal Chart
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I am not trying to impose this interpretation on anyone else. Its just my outlook.


I know. I phrased my initial statement a little awkwardly by mentioning the Moon when I just should have noted the eclipse. I don't know that a lot of work has been done with people born on the day of an eclipse, and I'm not sure that there is a whole lot to it. Perhaps the degree has special significance for these people. I don't know. It was just a question.
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Yuriy



Joined: 03 Jan 2006
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 2:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, for instance, horoscopes of people like Donald Trump or Dick Cheney(rich guy too) are look like loser's charts - no essential planet's dignities and little of accidental dignities.
Nevertheless those "losers" are ruling the world.
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Tom
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If losers have charts with no essential dignity, then Abraham Lincoln and Ghandi are both losers.
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Yuriy



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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 3:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
If losers have charts with no essential dignity, then Abraham Lincoln and Ghandi are both losers.


As well as George Bush and Vladimir Putin
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Yuriy



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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 4:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No, Putin has Saturn in Libra (they say in 12th)
One of richest guy in the world
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StellarTiggy



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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 7:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
If losers have charts with no essential dignity, then Abraham Lincoln and Ghandi are both losers.


Tom, Lincoln's chart has a lot more dignity than Trump's chart. Ghandi's chart is ok too but he's more like Trump. He's got Moon in the 11th in the natal and then in the 12th of the Fortune chart. I think his Spirit is in Sagittarius and that places a diurnal Saturn with Spirit.
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Mark
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Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2012 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stellar Tigger wrote:
Quote:
Tom, Lincoln's chart has a lot more dignity than Trump's chart. Ghandi's chart is ok too but he's more like Trump. He's got Moon in the 11th in the natal and then in the 12th of the Fortune chart. I think his Spirit is in Sagittarius and that places a diurnal Saturn with Spirit.


The exact time and therefore house placements for both the charts of Lincoln and Gandhi's chart are uncertain. Rather than debate the ambiguous I suggest we get back to the focus of the thread.

Here is a chart of the Scottish millionaire Brian Souter. As birth time is recorded on birth certificates in Scotland this is AA data.

Along with his sister, Ann Gloag, Brian Souter founded the Stagecoach Group which started running bus services and expanded throughout the United Kingdom and internationally, also moving into rail franchises. The business was funded with the redundancy payment his father had received. Souter's businesses have made him one of the richest men in Scotland.

Souter has become a politically controversial figure. As an evangelical Christian and lay preacher he funded a campaign to stop the Scottish government liberalising the law regarding the then existing ban on same sex relationships being discussed as a lifestyle option in Scottish schools.

Souter has also been a supporter of the Scottish national party and has favoured independence. In 2011, he was awarded a Knighthood for services to transport and the voluntary sector, though the honour was criticised by Scottish Labour politicians and by Gay Rights campaigners.

Souter still lives in his home town of Perth with his wife and 4 children.

I have displayed the chart in Whole sign and for a quadrant system Alcabitius which I feel works better than Placidus this far north.





By WS Jupiter disposits H2 and H11 as well as the MC and is placed in the fortunate 5th house. Jupiter is angular by sign division. The Lot of Spirit is in the 2nd house in Pisces and also disposited by Jupiter. The communication link with Jupiter in Gemini is transparent. Jupiter is technically out of sect in a day chart but there are mitigations in its placement in a masculine sign and quadrant and being under the earth in a night chart.

The Moon is in sect light on the IC. Perhaps reflecting Souter's nationalist beliefs. Again this links into themes of travel and communication. The dispositor Mercury is in the 4th house in the fixed sign of Taurus. This possibly reflects the socially conservative values of Souter.

Looking at the Chart from the Lot of Fortune the exalted Mars in Capricorn is in sect, in a feminine sign, above the horizon at night in the 1st. Mars is therefore in hayz. The Sun and Mercury are in the angular 4th. However, Mercury is combust and the Sun is out of sect and in a feminine sign in a feminine quarter.

Saturn seems to be of little assistance here. Its peregrine, retrograde, out of sect, above the earth at night and in a feminine sign! However, it is the 10th HS house. As ASC ruler this may reflect the controversial effect Souter's conservative ideas have had in the public sphere. He has also been known to be a very tough negotiator with his employees. Despite his religious values he has openly stated that capitalism by necessity is a ruthless business.

Mark
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varuna2



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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 7:18 am; edited 1 time in total
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StellarTiggy



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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

varuna2 wrote:
I thought about looking at Donald Trump and noticed the birthtime is different at astrodatabank, which gives a time of 10:54 vs. 09:51.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trump,_Donald

Does someone know which time is correct?


I also looked up both Lincoln and Ghandi's charts on an astrology website, I had no idea their times were inaccurate.
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margherita



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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Silvio Berlusconi - time mentioned by himself for an astrological consultation



Venus is detriment but in the second house.

Jupiter in the third house (communications) and in its sign. Part of Spirit in Jupiter sign too and in aspect by sign with its ruler.

margherita
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Varuna 2 wrote:
Quote:
I thought about looking at Donald Trump and noticed the birthtime is different at astrodatabank, which gives a time of 10:54 vs. 09:51.

http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Trump,_Donald

Does someone know which time is correct?


Thanks for that. Just another reminder to check the data of charts people post up or discuss here. It looks like the time you mention is derived from an online birth certificate. Astrodatabank have therefore replaced the previous time of 09.51AM in the chart display with 10.54AM.

Fortunately, this doesn't change the delineation from a WS perpective much. Its still Leo rising and the Sun is still in hayz. However, the eminence indicators are even stronger with the ASC on the royal fixed star Regulus.

Astrodatabank cite the following data notes below the chart for Trump:

Quote:
PT quotes birth certificate found online. Since the document was evidently posted by Trump, some caution is advised even though there is no evidence that the document was altered. Previously this entry was rated "A" (from memory) and had a birth time of 9:51 AM with the following source notes: LMR quotes a private source who obtained the data from his mother, confirmed by another astrologer who said, "He laughed, then called his mom."
Quote:

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Last edited by Mark on Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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StellarTiggy



Joined: 17 May 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

margherita wrote:
Silvio Berlusconi - time mentioned by himself for an astrological consultation



Venus is detriment but in the second house.

Jupiter in the third house (communications) and in its sign. Part of Spirit in Jupiter sign too and in aspect by sign with its ruler.

margherita


Hello Margherita,

In addition to the charts would you take a moment to mention some important financial significators in your opinion? Some people say the Acquisition in most important and some people believe a strong Fortune placement is all it takes. What in your opinion shows the person will be very wealthy?
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I admit I am biased but I find the actual success of Silvio Berlusconi much easier to explain in whole sign houses.

Berlusconi's Moon is the sect light and in the angular 7th house. The Moon is also strengthened by being in its triplicity and placement in a feminine sign. Its dispositor is Jupiter is in its own domicile, in a masculine sign, below the horizon at night. Jupiter is also angular by WS. The Lot of spirit is at 4'02 Pisces and therefore its dispositor is Jupiter too.

Venus may be in detriment but it is the benefic of sect and in a feminine sign in the 3rd house. Berlusconi's Mars (Lord 3) is angular in the 1st WS house, in sect, above the horizon in a feminine sign so in hayz.

I am not getting much in terms of indications of wealth or success looking at derived houses from the Lot of Fortune. Ok the Sun falls in the angular 7th. However, Moon falls in the 12th derived house while the lot of Fortune's dispositor (Mars) falls in the 6th derived house. The place of acquisition is untenanted of planets and ruled by the strongly out of sect malefic Saturn. Jupiter falls in the 9th.

The derived houses work much better from the Lot of Spirit here. Sect light (Moon) in the 1st. A strongly in sect Mars angular in the 7th. Jupiter in the 10th derived house from spirit. Lot of fortune in the 2nd. Of course those who do not reverse the calculation method by night would have the Lot of spirit as the Lot of Fortune here.

As its a late ASC the chart looks quite different in WS houses so I have displayed it that way below:



Mark
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

None of the Luminaries is above the horizon, which makes a "dark" chart, that is a chart without Light (either of night or of day). Charts like this makes things unclear when we want to look for the native's life and various circumstances, like his financial situation. This example clearly shows that sometimes we have to use the Lot of Spirit instead one of Fortune, just because "dark" charts tangle matters. There are other conditions that may change the Lots, of course.

I remember someone (Mark?) wrote in this forum that when Sun is in 12th, we should to look for the Moon, and that is remarkable, because I always had the strong feeling that 12th is a nocturnal House, even though is Saturn's joy. I don't have a reason for that, I just look for the Moon any time I see Sun in 12th and if the Sun is also in a nocturnal Sign, it is more so the case to look at the Lot of Spirit as if is of Fortune. Hope I make sense, lol.
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margherita



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Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2012 1:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mark wrote:


Berlusconi's Moon is the sect light and in the angular 7th house. The Moon is also strengthened by being in its triplicity and placement in a feminine sign. Its dispositor is Jupiter is in its own domicile, in a masculine sign, below the horizon at night. Jupiter is also angular by WS. The Lot of spirit is at 4'02 Pisces and therefore its dispositor is Jupiter too.


Yes, I saw that angular Jupiter by whole sign houses but I desired to be faithful to Bezza Embarassed

Angular Mars (POF ruler) and L8 so angular is interesting too.
In every case where Berlusconi's money comes from is not so evident, and in a sense a "dark" chart is a perfect definition in my opinion.

margherita
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