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Financial Significators in the Natal Chart
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StellarTiggy



Joined: 17 May 2011
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:16 am    Post subject: Financial Significators in the Natal Chart Reply with quote

If I am examining a natal chart and I want to see how rich the person is, or will likely become, what do I look at--how do I determine this ACCURATELY?
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zoomaster



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Location: Hyderabad, India

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 4:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Be sure you are using the Whole Sign House system.

Look at the second house. Are there any planets located in the second house? If so, do they have any dignity there? Are they in domiciles of sign rulership or exaltation? Conversely, are they suffering any debility? Detriment/fall?

It's extremely important that you delineate the promise given by any planets located in the second house.

Next, take a look at the sign ruler and exalted rulers of the second house. Where are they located? Are they in angular, succedent, or cadent houses? Are they dignified or debilitated? Do they aspect any planet that might be in the second house? Are they aspected or do they aspect benefics (this means any planet with dignity/angularity or some combination) or malefics (planets with no dignity/cadency, or some combination).

Take a look at Jupiter, which is co-significator of wealth. If he is dignified, not retrograde, angular, i.e. if he looks good, the financial situation will not be horrible (unless he is besieged or attacked, etc.)

That is a very brief summation of techniques you may want to use to determine the financial standing of the native.
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varuna2



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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 7:16 am; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 5:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stellar Tiggy wrote:
Quote:
If I am examining a natal chart and I want to see how rich the person is, or will likely become, what do I look at--how do I determine this ACCURATELY?


If you haven't seen it already this article is useful where Deborah Houlding summarises aphorisms on wealth from traditional sources.

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthaphorisms.html

Here is an article looking at the nativity of the multi-millionaire John Paul Getty

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthgetty.html

Mark
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Tzadde



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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

varuna2 wrote:
The Lots with POF as Asc. See: Five Pillars of Fate.

The Five Pillars are PoF, Part of Spirit (converse calculation from the PoF), the Place of Acquisition (11th Sign after the Part of Fortune), the Part of Exaltation (from the Sun to the 19th degree Aries in day charts and from the Moon to the 3rd degree Taurus in night charts) and the Part of Basis (calculated from the PoF to the PoS in the shortest distance between them, so the Basis would never be above the horizon).

Also, look for the Part of Victory (for competitions), which is calculated from Spirit to Jupiter in diurnal charts and conversely in nocturnal ones.

The Part of Blind Luck (for some lottery winners): from Jupiter to Moon in day charts and conversely in night charts.

The aspects and Houses matter more than essential dignities, that's what I have seen so far in my astrological practice.
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 12:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is the chart of a very rich guy: Jay Gould (1836 - 1892), American financier was probably the richest man in the world at one point. He supposedly personally bailed out the US Treasury when it was in trouble. One can only imagine the political payoff for that. At his death in 1892 his personal fortune was estimated to be about $72 million. This was a conservative estimate for tax purposes. According to Wiki, he was the 9th richest American ever.

Both benefics are in the 2nd, and Jupiter is exalted. Both are disposited by the Moon, and Venus is in mutual reception with the Moon (fertility) who is on the benefic fixed star Spica (7 minute orb). That's a pretty good start.


I'm wondering out loud here: many, if not most or all, of these kinds of men who amass huge fortunes, have personality traits in common. In Gould's case, as in the case of Commodore Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller et al, he was ruthless (although not the demon he was later made out to be). We have to be careful here because much of what we believe about these so called "Robber Barons" (the title of a popular, but heavily biased book written by a Marxist, Matthew Josephson) has turned out to be wildly exaggerated. Still, they would not be confused with Casper Milquetoast. One famous story involved Gould allegedly printing phony stocks to sell to Vanderbilt, who was buying them ravenously. When Vanderbilt discovered the plot he sic'd the NYC Police on Gould who hid out on some tiny island in the Hudson River. When the dust settled Vanderbilt was allegedly asked by the press his reaction to being swindled by Gould, "Never kick a skunk" was his only reply.

The point is that there are probably lots of people with Jupiter and Venus in the second house who don't become fabulously wealthy. So other factors are involved and among those factors are drive, intelligence, and willingness to take risks. We might look for that along with the significators of wealth.




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zoidsoft



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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 2:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The acquisitive place is Virgo and Mercury was found on the ascendant in dignity. Also a close trine to Saturn in exaltation. This combination of Saturn and Mercury indicates contract writers...
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Tzadde



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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Part of Spirit is in Aquarius, the Part of Basis (and of Blind Luck, if it matters) is in Virgo and the Part of Exaltation is in Taurus.

The connection between Mercury and Saturn is more obvious now, and the ruler of Exaltation is in Cancer, in mutual reception with the Moon, which is related to fate, so the native was bound for rise, no matter what.

Look at Mars: dispositor of PoF, has aspects with all the Five Pillars, with Jupiter (general significator of wealth and ruler of 10th Sign after Asc) and Venus (luxury), along with a separating opposition with Saturn. Mars is the willingness to take risks...
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Yuriy



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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 8:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:
This is the chart of a very rich guy: Jay Gould (1836 - 1892), American financier was probably the richest man in the world at one point. He supposedly personally bailed out the US Treasury when it was in trouble. One can only imagine the political payoff for that. At his death in 1892 his personal fortune was estimated to be about $72 million. This was a conservative estimate for tax purposes. According to Wiki, he was the 9th richest American ever.

Both benefics are in the 2nd, and Jupiter is exalted. Both are disposited by the Moon, and Venus is in mutual reception with the Moon (fertility) who is on the benefic fixed star Spica (7 minute orb). That's a pretty good start.


I'm wondering out loud here: many, if not most or all, of these kinds of men who amass huge fortunes, have personality traits in common. In Gould's case, as in the case of Commodore Vanderbilt, John D. Rockefeller et al, he was ruthless (although not the demon he was later made out to be). We have to be careful here because much of what we believe about these so called "Robber Barons" (the title of a popular, but heavily biased book written by a Marxist, Matthew Josephson) has turned out to be wildly exaggerated. Still, they would not be confused with Casper Milquetoast. One famous story involved Gould allegedly printing phony stocks to sell to Vanderbilt, who was buying them ravenously. When Vanderbilt discovered the plot he sic'd the NYC Police on Gould who hid out on some tiny island in the Hudson River. When the dust settled Vanderbilt was allegedly asked by the press his reaction to being swindled by Gould, "Never kick a skunk" was his only reply.

The point is that there are probably lots of people with Jupiter and Venus in the second house who don't become fabulously wealthy. So other factors are involved and among those factors are drive, intelligence, and willingness to take risks. We might look for that along with the significators of wealth.







Hmm, is Spica assumes willingness to take risks?
Spica's testimony is "good luck and wealth beyond expectations", being nice lazy guy, sitting and contemplating how wealth coming to his hands.
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Tom
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Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2012 10:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Hmm, is Spica assumes willingness to take risks?


I didn't say that. I noted the benefic star Spica on the dispositor of the benefics. The risk taking is just one of the characteristics of people who make great fortunes. I didn't associate it with Spica.
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StellarTiggy



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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 5:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So do we give equal weight to the Lots as to Acquisition, or is Acquisition more important than the Lots and the 2nd house with respect to predicting financial gain?
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Yuriy



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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also read that main luminaries dispositor in chart (diurnal or nocturnal) tells a lot about general well-being, financial and social standing.
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Tom
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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 1:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've also read that main luminaries dispositor in chart (diurnal or nocturnal) tells a lot about general well-being, financial and social standing.

I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them.

In this case Mercury disposits the light of sect. Mercury is powerful in Gemini and in the ASC. But Gemini is a barren sign. Now Gould was never an overly popular man. His social standing was strong but he was not well liked. So while this aphorism can apparently be applied to his social standing, I'd be reluctant to assign it to his financial standing.
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Yuriy



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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tom wrote:


[color=darkblue]I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them.

In this case Mercury disposits the light of sect. Mercury is powerful in Gemini and in the ASC. But Gemini is a barren sign. Now Gould was never an overly popular man. His social standing was strong but he was not well liked. So while this aphorism can apparently be applied to his social standing, I'd be reluctant to assign it to his financial standing.




I can't bring citations, I was through some intense training (kind of like your mystery charts but more)
and remember from there that general significators of native's social standing and general wellbeing (at least assuming good or bad financial situation) are:
- main luminary dispositor
- MC ruler or almuten
- second triplicity ruler of sign at MC
The last one came from Esra:
first ruler of MC sign triplicity tells about mother, second about highest professional rank possible, third about kind of profession itself
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Tzadde



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Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2012 3:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fertility and barrenness were never used to refer to money or social standing, neither to popularity. This dichotomy referred only to the ability to procreate... to have children, that is.

I give equal weight to all Five Pillars, and the ruler of 2nd falls on second place after these, along with 10th and 11th Houses.

In this case, I found interesting the fact that the Part of Basis is in the Place of Acquisition, which makes Mercury a very important planet, and - as already pointed out - as the holder of Sun, the conditional Light, he is even more important. Mercury is related to papers, coins and all the things related to these, and also - obviously - to intelligence.

Notice that Moon is ruler of 2nd and is in mutual reception with Venus, ruler of Exaltation...
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