16
Fertility and barrenness were never used to refer to money or social standing, neither to popularity. This dichotomy referred only to the ability to procreate... to have children, that is.
While I'm sure fertility and barrenness were mostly used to determine the number of children, if any, I don't see why that should be limited to just this. We're dealing with a concept, not a rock hard rule. Fertility and/or its lack is a concept that is not limited to childbearing, so I don't see why it can't be applied to other areas.

19
Yuriy wrote:
J. Paul Getty I this article http://www.skyscript.co.uk/wealthgetty.html
But nothing above said could be applied to his chart.
Well, dispositor of Fortuna Mars in trine to Fortuna, in reception with Jupiter in 2nd, but all week planets themselves.
I put the link to this article up already mostly for the delineation notes. However, see the data notes at the bottom of the article which show the birth time is by no means definite. This may explain your difficulties with the chart.
5.43 AM LMT (14.56 GMT), 15 Dec. 1892, Lat. 44N59, Long. 93W16.There are doubts as to Getty's exact birth time. Lois Rodden in The American Book of Charts (p.305) quotes 10.43 AM LMT and 8.30 am CST as possible alternatives. The given chart seems the most likely, but should be regarded as an illustration of a method of judgement rather than a definitive nativity.
I have a lot of AA data for Scottish millionaires which I can post up if people want to take this more into delineation.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

21
Tom wrote:
I've also read that main luminaries dispositor in chart (diurnal or nocturnal) tells a lot about general well-being, financial and social standing.
Our main ancient sources on this are Antiochus of Athens and Porphyry.

Basically, the first step was to look at the sect light. However, if it was in a cadent house (by Whole sign) you excluded it and went to the other luminary. If both were cadent you go to the ASC. They called the appropriate luminary of sect (or if none the ASC) the predominator.

They called the dispositor of the predominator the oikodespotes (domicile Master). The domicile ruler of the predominator's sign is the domicile master (oikodespotes) of the chart (the planet that claims the whole chart as his dwelling place). The domicile master is the one who sets the agenda/policy in native?s life. The bound (term) ruler of the predominator is the oversight i.e. the one who sets the restriction over the domicile master (oikodespotes) of the chart. The next planet that is equally important in the overall rulership of a nativity (besides Oikodespotes or domicile master of the chart) is called Kurios [Lord of the nativity]. Kurios is the executor of the agenda that Oikodespotes (domicile master) holds.
I tend to be leery of these kinds of aphorisms. Most aphorisms might be understood with the codicil, "all other things being equal," since all other things are rarely equal, the aphorisms should be carefully examined before applying them.
Agreed. I am still testing out some of these hellenistic natal ideas myself. However, its worth keeping in mind that much of the corpus of traditional astrology is composed of such aphorisms.

Mark
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly

22
... its worth keeping in mind that much of the corpus of traditional astrology is composed of such aphorisms.
Absolutely. My only point is these are aphorisms and not hard and fast laws. An awful lot can be learned by reading aphorisms alone. Take them apart and try to determine why the author is saying what he is saying. It's a great exercise.

23
Here is the chart of everyone's favorite rich guy: Donald Trump. The Donald did start out in life with a small advantage: his father spotted him about $20 million to get started. Note Jupiter, ruler of the 5th (father's wealth) in a partile sextile to the ASC. But Donald improved on that.

Image

24
Tom wrote:Here is the chart of everyone's favorite rich guy: Donald Trump. The Donald did start out in life with a small advantage: his father spotted him about $20 million to get started. Note Jupiter, ruler of the 5th (father's wealth) in a partile sextile to the ASC. But Donald improved on that.

Image
The only notable position I see is lord of the 10th from Fortune (Mars) is in the 1st. I am not sure where Trump's Spirit, Exaltation, or Basis are but I think they must be conjunct the 7th house because he's a full moon birth, although Exaltation is probably somewhere else. His Acquisition isn't particularly significant here although he has some placements there like the Moon, and Jupiter isn't that special in his chart. I can see the Venus-Saturn in Cancer in Trump "you're fired"

26
Tom wrote:I just noticed the Full Moon's approximation to the nodes. It looks like he was born on a total lunar eclipse
That's a good note but I doubt it is anything special. Lots of people are born during an eclipse, and I suspect the Fortune/10th house placement in the 1st is a reflection of his fame rather than his financial gain in particular. That's interesting how his chart really isn't that eminent. His Sun is the sect light in the Fortune 5th, which is good and talks about his interest in investments, and Mercury, Saturn, and Jupiter are all mediocre. Mars being in an angle to all the Lots is pretty good. I expected more...

27
Tom wrote:
I just noticed the Full Moon's approximation to the nodes. It looks like he was born on a total lunar eclipse
As its a day chart I wouldn't attribute as much significance to the Moon here. However, the Sun is strongly in sect and in hayz. In a diurnal sign and quarter in a day chart. In the fortunate 11th house and conjunct the North Node. The Sun is again emphasized by the royal sign Leo as the ascendant sign. All these together are strong indicators of eminence. The Sun is in aversion to its domicile dispositor. However, it is in antiscia to Mercury. The Sun is in the bound of Saturn. The latter in detriment in the 12th house. If would be interesting to study if this planet was prominent during his financial problems during the early 1990's.

Getting back to the Moon we do have it in the 11th place of acquisition disposited by Jupiter.

Mark
Last edited by Mark on Sun Sep 16, 2012 12:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.
As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity William Lilly