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Electional Astrology

 
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astrobe



Joined: 07 May 2012
Posts: 12

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2012 3:06 pm    Post subject: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

I am making 2 different elections, 1 election for a one day event and the other one for marriage.

1)there are some squares and oppositions of malefics and benefics in the election to natal sun, moon, mars, mercury, venus of the bride, groom and the one day event.
would you not pick both charts because of that? the electional chart is good and there are also trines and sextiles of benefics in the election to the natal planets of the bride, groom and the one day event.

2)would you pick a chart with any of the significators in 6th,8th or 12th If it would fortify the weaker significators? what house system do you use for elections?

3)what fixed stars do you use in elections? what orb do you use for fixed stars in elections?

thanks Smile
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Astrobe says:

Quote:
I am making 2 different elections, 1 election for a one day event and the other one for marriage.

1)there are some squares and oppositions of malefics and benefics in the election to natal sun, moon, mars, mercury, venus of the bride, groom and the one day event.
would you not pick both charts because of that? the electional chart is good and there are also trines and sextiles of benefics in the election to the natal planets of the bride, groom and the one day event.

2)would you pick a chart with any of the significators in 6th,8th or 12th If it would fortify the weaker significators? what house system do you use for elections?

3)what fixed stars do you use in elections? what orb do you use for fixed stars in elections?



Well how about some examples, say uploading the chart options. If you don't know how to post as many here have trouble doing see my 'posting horoscopes' post.

You failed to say what the other Non-marriage election was so we all have no clue of how to help on that.

As far as the ideal charts for an electional on marriage the fixed signs rising and occupying the angles are suggested, like Sco rising, Not Tau asc., for obvious reasons as who wants mars lord of the 7th with the pluto detriment.

Quote:
1)there are some squares and oppositions of malefics and benefics in the election to natal sun, moon, mars, mercury, venus of the bride, groom and the one day event.


Can't tell if you have read Traditionalist Ramesay or Modern Robson by your quote. But is the progressed horoscope or rather Directions showing this for the electionee at this time? That has a stronger bearing than the aspects to natal positions. I'm assuming that since you list 'venus of the bride' you are speaking of Tau on the 7th rather than Libra in the Election.

Quote:
2)would you pick a chart with any of the significators in 6th,8th or 12th If it would fortify the weaker significators? what house system do you use for elections?


Mainly you are looking at the Election's 7th, and then the aspects from the Asc. and 7th. Of course the 2H and 8H are great to have benefic aspects between since more marriages dissolve because of sexual and financial problems and more last due to religious or philosophical shared understandings.

Quote:
3)what fixed stars do you use in elections? what orb do you use for fixed stars in elections?


What's wrong with consulting all known fixed stars even if in principle many may not have been known traditionally by the Ancients? One degree orb is said to be a maximum allowed to Fixed Stars.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know
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astrofan



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 19

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

astrobe wrote:
1)there are some squares and oppositions of malefics and benefics in the election to natal sun, moon, mars, mercury, venus of the bride, groom and the one day event.
would you not pick both charts because of that? the electional chart is good and there are also trines and sextiles of benefics in the election to the natal planets of the bride, groom and the one day event.

No astrologer, even modern electional astrologers explained how to make the natal good with the electional chart because it is not very important.
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

astrofan wrote:

No astrologer, even modern electional astrologers explained how to make the natal good with the electional chart because it is not very important.


See Partridge "Vade Mecum" (1679) page 256, "... for indeed, these elections by themselves without regard to the nativity are fruitless and ineffectual..."

Ptolomy's Centiloquium, as translated by Henry Coley in "Clavis Astrologiae Elimata" (1676) page 310, aphorism 6, "The election, either of day or hour, shall then advantage when it is constituted from the nativity; otherwise, though the election be well made, it will not profit."

Joseph Blagrave "Introduction to Astrology" (1682) gives a long and detailed consideration of elections, starting on page 187. Blagrave states that an election is much hampered without reference to the native or querents natal chart, and impossible in the case of youths or children.

See too the extract from the chapter on elections in John Frawley's "Real Astrology" on this website. "....From the birth-chart we will determine which planets must be particularly well-placed in the chart of the moment chosen for the election...."

Geoffrey
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varuna2



Joined: 20 Feb 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Lemuria

Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

delete

Last edited by varuna2 on Sat May 04, 2013 8:03 am; edited 1 time in total
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astrofan



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 19

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 7:20 am    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:
astrofan wrote:

No astrologer, even modern electional astrologers explained how to make the natal good with the electional chart because it is not very important.


See Partridge "Vade Mecum" (1679) page 256, "... for indeed, these elections by themselves without regard to the nativity are fruitless and ineffectual..."

Ptolomy's Centiloquium, as translated by Henry Coley in "Clavis Astrologiae Elimata" (1676) page 310, aphorism 6, "The election, either of day or hour, shall then advantage when it is constituted from the nativity; otherwise, though the election be well made, it will not profit."

Joseph Blagrave "Introduction to Astrology" (1682) gives a long and detailed consideration of elections, starting on page 187. Blagrave states that an election is much hampered without reference to the native or querents natal chart, and impossible in the case of youths or children.

See too the extract from the chapter on elections in John Frawley's "Real Astrology" on this website. "....From the birth-chart we will determine which planets must be particularly well-placed in the chart of the moment chosen for the election...."

Geoffrey


Yes, most of them said that, no one explained how to make the natal chart good with the electional chart though, all they explained about it is what you quoted.

They explained about the electional chart, what signs and part of the signs
Moon should or shouldn't be in, Venus, rulers, houses, aspects etc, but nothing about natal planets or angles to electional planets or how to make the electional good with the natal charts.
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 8:27 am    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

astrofan wrote:

No astrologer, even modern electional astrologers explained how to make the natal good with the electional chart because it is not very important..


Hello Astrofan

If by this statement you imply that "no astrologer" thinks, or has thought, that linking election charts to the natal chart was important, I hope you are now persuaded otherwise.

As for not explaining the detail of how to make the electional chart good with the natal chart - Partridge, for example, has already discussed directions, progressions and solar returns (to give their modern names), where comparison with the natal chart is central to the methods. I suspect that by the time he gets to elections, he probably assumes the reader has got the jist of the thing and confines himself to saying, ("Vade Mecum" page 256) "...For example, if a man would elect a time to take physick, the usual time is when the Moon is in Cancer, or Pisces, but if Saturn or Mars were there, or opposite to it in that man's nativity, instead of his physick working kindly, perhaps it may kill him...." Which I think gives the general idea.

Coley discusses elections before predictive methods using the natal chart, so he actually goes into quite a lot of detail on how to work with the nativity in election charts. See "Clavis Astrologiae Elimata" page 274 on.

I would simply conclude with a quote from Coley (ibid. page 276) "Thus 'tis clear to the eye of reason, in my opinion, that except the nativity be known, 'tis but a vain and foolish thing for any person to constitute an election, and this hath been long since much pleaded for by ancient and authentic authors who have laid down many good arguments and convincing reasons for the same..."


Geoffrey
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1338

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Reading this thread with interest - thanks Clinton, Geoffrey, varuna2 for the quotations (!) - I would like to ask astrofan:

when you say
astrofan wrote:
No astrologer, even modern electional astrologers explained how to make the natal good with the electional chart because it is not very important.

what is not very important then:
to "to make the natal good with the electional chart" or
"the electional chart"?

Johannes
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astrofan



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 19

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 2:38 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Geoffrey wrote:

Hello Astrofan

If by this statement you imply that "no astrologer" thinks, or has thought, that linking election charts to the natal chart was important, I hope you are now persuaded otherwise.

As for not explaining the detail of how to make the electional chart good with the natal chart - Partridge, for example, has already discussed directions, progressions and solar returns (to give their modern names), where comparison with the natal chart is central to the methods. I suspect that by the time he gets to elections, he probably assumes the reader has got the jist of the thing and confines himself to saying, ("Vade Mecum" page 256) "...For example, if a man would elect a time to take physick, the usual time is when the Moon is in Cancer, or Pisces, but if Saturn or Mars were there, or opposite to it in that man's nativity, instead of his physick working kindly, perhaps it may kill him...." Which I think gives the general idea.

Coley discusses elections before predictive methods using the natal chart, so he actually goes into quite a lot of detail on how to work with the nativity in election charts. See "Clavis Astrologiae Elimata" page 274 on.

I would simply conclude with a quote from Coley (ibid. page 276) "Thus 'tis clear to the eye of reason, in my opinion, that except the nativity be known, 'tis but a vain and foolish thing for any person to constitute an election, and this hath been long since much pleaded for by ancient and authentic authors who have laid down many good arguments and convincing reasons for the same..."


Geoffrey


Hello,
I think linking the natal chart to the electional is important but not very important and the electional chart is more important, they explained little about making the electional good with the natal.

"Let not the Moon be afflicted by any of the planets that were infortunate to the native in his gensis when you begin a work of consequence: but whenever you do, be sure to fortifie the Moon in any election, although she governs of a bad house in the radix; because the moon is a general significatrix in all things relating to the concerns of mankind, and is said to bring down the influence of the other planets upon us"

"... and applying to the body or aspect of an infortunate and especially if that Infortunate was the ruler of a bad house; viz. the eighth or twelfth in the nativity"

"if it be possible that you can, let the Moon be posited in that house in which signifies the thing you make your election for, especially if that house is fortunate at birth"

This is more about the Moon than the other planets or rulers.

I would pick both charts for the elections. Would you?
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delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Hello astrofan,

Gadbury goes into some detail as to the ways in which one might align an election with a natal chart. At one point he even arranges the rules in a hierarchical order.
a) For an Election, choose an Ascendant from among the following:-
i. the ‘birth’ ascendant
ii. signs that are in Trine to the ‘birth’ ascendant
iii. signs that are in Sextile to the ‘birth’ ascendant
b) If, as sometimes happens, none of these signs is available for whatever reason then
have the radical place (i.e. degree) of a Fortune rise in the Election
or have the radical place (degree) of the Sun or Moon rise
[Gadbury’s earlier discourse allows Trines and Sextiles to these degrees also]
c) At the same time – and possibly taking precedence over the above –
ensure the Moon is well placed (in other words, fortify the Moon)
and in good configuration with the principal significators.

In the case of setting forth on a voyage, for example, the principal significators are
i) the lord of the natal Ascendant (representing the person themselves – or in this instance, the ship itself)
ii) the lord of the natal ninth house (voyages, travel abroad)
iii) the Moon’s dispositor in the election chart
iv) the Part of Fortune’s dispositor in the election chart

Gadbury, in his closing remarks, covers points not dealt with in his previously laid down injunctions. He explains that, in his example chart: -
1. The lord of the Ascendant of the Election chart is conjoined the place of the Moon in the Radix.
2. The electional Moon is conjoined the Radical Ascendant.
3. The electional Jupiter is Sextile the place of Radical Jupiter.
4. The electional Jupiter is in Trine to the Sun and Saturn in the Election chart.

Mr Gadbury also explains how an election can be constructed with relation to a horary chart, many of the rules being similar to those given above.

Melissa
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astrofan



Joined: 21 Nov 2012
Posts: 19

Posted: Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Delaforge and Geoffrey, I don't think you can find a perfect electional chart, impossible if the client wants it to be this month.

For a wedding, would you pick an electional charts with those aspects? (Benefics in the natal aspecting electional planets and Malefics in the natal in a square or opposition to the electional planets or Malefics in the natal in a square or opposition to the natal planets)
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Dec 13, 2012 3:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Many of our Contemporary Traditionalists frown upon the Modern Vivian Robson's work in his Electional Astrology book just as many have trouble with Gadbury because in horary he deviated from Traditionalism. However most of Robson is from Ramsey or Ramesey, and Robson points out if it's Not in the natal and the progressed chart, or I'll say Directions and deviate from Robson, that an Election can Not happen.

IE. Let's say we have a male individual with Sun cjt. Jupiter in the 9th in their natal horoscope with Leo asc.; with the exception of conflicting testimonys the native woudl be rather tall. So it would be very impossible if a large young man wanted to become a professional jockey with any great electional horoscope no matter how much they loved riding horses.

IE. #2 If one had a native's horoscope with a very afflicted 7th lord and other contributing factors, even under a great progression like Progressed Venus cjt the lord of their 7th, the most that particular native may accomplish may be a co-habitation or if married it could be a marriage with great conflicts regardless of the electional chart and the benefic progression if the 7th is afflicted. This I've noticed in many cases in my files, what the stellar script proclaims to be can only be altered to a degree as the rank and file of mankind react to their horoscope with a little variance.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know
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delaforge



Joined: 06 Jan 2007
Posts: 87

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 12:44 pm    Post subject: Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Please forgive the tardiness of my response.

I have a comment to make about something in varuna's post for November 22. He said: -

Quote:
Notes: The position of Jupiter in a benefic House from the 'Janama Rashi' (the sign in which the Moon is there at the time of birth) of the girl is referred to as 'Guru Shuddhi' (or the favourable position of Jupiter); and the position of the Sun in a benefic house from the 'Janama Rashi' of the boy is referred to as 'Ravi Shuddhi' (or the favourable position of the Sun) and the position of the Moon in a benefic house from the 'Janama Rashis' of both the boy and the girl is referred to as 'Chandra Shuddhi'" (p. 151 MC by GC Sharma).


I wanted to say, en passant, that all these conditions are fulfilled in the wedding chart of British Queen Elizabeth II & Prince Phillip. The time and place were not, so far as I am aware, elected. But the marriage has stood the test of time with both partners clearly a great support to the other. Thus the efficacy of the conditions given by G.C. Sharma is backed-up by events.

Jupiter in the wedding chart is in the 5th House from the Queen's Janama Rashi. Sun in the wedding chart is in the 5th House from the Prince's Janama Rashi. And the Moon in the wedding chart is in the 7th from both parties' Janama Rahis.

Guru Shuddhi is present as are Ravi Shuddhi and Chandra Shuddhi.

The birth data for Queen Elizabeth and Prince Phillip are in the public domain. Data for the wedding may be harder to obtain. It is: -
    20 November 1947, 11. 45 a.m., London, UK.

Melissa
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lihin



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 470
Location: Mount Kailash

Posted: Sat Dec 29, 2012 5:03 pm    Post subject: Source book of Electional Astrology Reply with quote

Good evening,

May one recommend

Choices and Inceptions: Traditional Electional Astrology

containing translations of works by Al-Rijal, Al-'Imrani and Bin Sahl as well as introduction and comments by Benjamin Dykes, PhD, published in June, 2012?

Best regards,

lihin

PS Are we not in a 'Western' astrological section of the forum here? Would perspectives from Indian astrology perhaps be more appropriate in the Indian and Asian Astrology section?
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