Consultation chart

1
Hi all,
I am starting to work with consultation charts, as an experiment, to see if they really add interesting information about what the client is going through.
In the age of internet consultations though, I suddenly wonder, what location should be used if the astrologer and the clients are quite far away from each other? The astrologer's location or the client's?
I would expect the astrologer's, but would appreciate any comment.
Thanks, LaraS

2
Thanks, lara, that's a great question, and one which has caused a lot of head-scratching for me as well.

Most horary astrologers I have met use the time and place when the question first comes to the astrologer's attention. Usually, in modern times, this means the moment when the astrologer first opens the client's e-mail, and it also means that the chart is cast for the astrologer's location.

Anyway, that seems to be a common opinion, one that I have often heard. But what do you horary experts think about it?

3
I am not an expert, just experienced in horary. I say that the question matters, so it is born only when two people know about it, the querent stating it by speech or writing and the astrologer by receiving the question. Because the astrologer is the receiver, the one who makes the question a mentally concrete matter (hope I make sense), his time and place are to be considered the question's coordinates.

I don't know if I was clear enough. In the old times, it was something extremely obvious for the old folks that there should be two who make a question. Just like a father (querent) and a mother (astrologer) with a child (question)... all three with their respective charts...

About the consultation charts, it is a really good call. Many querents don't know what or how to ask, so the astrologer can erect a consultation chart in order to see what is the problem... Looking at the Moon's aspects with the planetary hour and day rulers should be good enough.
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -

5
Lee Lehman (Martial Art of Horary Astrology, page 314) points out that the 'mother of consultation charts' was the chart set up for the time of receiving a urine sample from a patient. ("Urine casting")

Such charts were always set up for the urine caster's location, despite the fact that the patient was usually somewhat removed from that location. True, the locations were usually close enough that it did not matter which was chosen, but the principle remains.

Geoffrey

6
I don't think the original poster meant medical consultation, just the consultation that precedes horary...
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -

7
Hello

Re: "I suddenly wonder, what location should be used if the astrologer and the clients are quite far away from each other? The astrologer's location or the client's?"

I have used these charts for quite some time, now...always using the client's location. Especially look for angular contacts and for aspects that are mirroring natal aspects.

Take care

James

8
Tzadde wrote:I don't think the original poster meant medical consultation, just the consultation that precedes horary...
Hello Tzadde

I obviously did not make myself clear. The 'original poster' asked where the location for a consultation chart should be placed, with the astrologer or with the client. Too, the qualification that the consultation was of a horary nature was not specified by LaraS

I posited that the historical precedent for all consultation charts - the "mother of consultation charts" - was urine casting, where the location used was always that of the "urine caster" (who may, or may not have been a practising astrologer)

The chart in that case was cast for the reception of the urine sample before it was examined (tasted, smelled) to help determine what the cause of the illness may be.

I submit (Lee Lehman submits) that there is a good comparison between urine casting and casting a consultation chart at the start of a consultation between client and astrologer.

Geoffrey

9
Thank you all for the insightful comments and links to articles. Wonderful.

What I meant (I have the impression that I have not been too clear on this) was really the chart of the time the consultation takes place, not related to a horary question, but used in a horary technique way.
I know that A. Duncan, for one, uses this technique extensively to get background information about what the client will bring in. And it seems to work pretty well. I will start using it now, and wondered about your experiences in this matter.
Thanks again

11
Kirk,

You're presenting a philosophical argument as to which location should be used. I am trying to be more pragmatic and describe which method has produced the obviously working chart. (often the themes on the mind of the querent are so obvious in the Consultation chart that the Natal Chart really was not necessary in order to see the concerns of the client)

The Ascendant is the person asking the question...the Descendant is the Astrologer. This makes the querent the "main person of the chart" by his location at the Ascendant. It only makes sense to use his location for the chart.

If you're consulting clients by phone, just cast two charts...one with his location and one with yours. It is likely that you'll only have to do this test once...

Read Adrian Ross Duncan's masterful Astrology: Transformation & Empowerment. He goes to some length about Consultation charts and mentions an extended testing period of looking at both charts. His results and he says there are no doubts is that the location of the querent is the correct one. Having used this method a lot, I totally agree with his conclusions.


James