Do you take the 10th house ruler if the MC falls in the 11th 1 by StellarTiggy Hi, Just a straightforward question here about a career horary. If the MC falls in the 11th house, do you still pay attention to the whole sign 10th? This horary has the 10th house ruler applying to the 1st house ruler (Mercury and Jupiter). However, the MC falls in the 11th house ruled by Libra, so do we care about Venus? It begins to get convoluted, honestly, because the 10th house ruler Mercury in Leo applies swiftly towards Jupiter in Gemini, while the Moon is in Libra, conjunct the MC, in mutual reception with Venus, BUT past the perfecting square (Moon in Libra in mutual reception with Venus in Cancer.) What do you think? EDIT: HERE IS THE CHART FOR ANYONE WHO WISHES TO READ IT. I'VE ALREADY WRITTEN A PARTIAL INTERPRETATION IN THE POSTS. Last edited by StellarTiggy on Sat Nov 29, 2014 3:41 pm, edited 5 times in total. Quote Tue Aug 21, 2012 8:58 pm
2 by kerenhappuch Hi StellarTiggy, As you'll notice around the forum, the usual house type for horary is Regiomontanus. It has unequal houses and the MC is always the 10th house cusp. Whole sign houses are more commonly used in Vedic astrology, if you're keen to use whole signs then maybe someone over there could help you out. There have been a couple of job horaries on here lately, maybe those posts could shed some light on your chart. Let us know how you get on! Keren Quote Tue Aug 21, 2012 10:18 pm
3 by Kenneth Johnson I am not sure whether whole sign houses were ever used in Western astrology. Chris Brennan has argued that there isn't any genuine horary astrology in the Hellenistic repertoire, so your question can't be answered from that point of view. There is a lengthy discussion in the introduction to Ben Dykes' translation of Sahl and Masha'allah as to the circumstances under which early Arabic astrologers used whole sign houses and when they used quadrant houses. I don't remember if he discusses Midheaven issues, but if you have access to that book, you might check there. In prashna or Sanskrit horary astrology, the tenth whole-sign house always indicates career. The precise degree of the MC is never considered in a judgment. They understood the concept of the MC, and called it meshurana, which is based on the Greek, but in all the texts I have examined I have never seen them use the exact MC point as the indicator of career, only the Tenth House. Quote Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:20 am
4 by Kenneth Johnson OOPS! I am not sure whether whole sign houses were ever used in Western astrology. Obviously, I meant Western horary astrology, not Western astrology in general! Quote Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:41 am
Re: Do you take the 10th house ruler if the MC falls in the 5 by pankajdubey StellarTiggy wrote:Hi, Just a straightforward question here about a career horary. If the MC falls in the 11th house, do you still pay attention to the whole sign 10th? This horary has the 10th house ruler applying to the 1st house ruler (Mercury and Jupiter). However, the MC falls in the 11th house ruled by Libra, so do we care about Venus? It begins to get convoluted, honestly, because the 10th house ruler Mercury in Leo applies swiftly towards Jupiter in Gemini, while the Moon is in Libra, conjunct the MC, in mutual reception with Venus, BUT past the perfecting square (Moon in Libra in mutual reception with Venus in Cancer.) What do you think? Could they be telling the same thing Moon applying to a trine of 1st lord-Jupiter (from the square of MC lord Venus). Quote Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:58 am
Re: Do you take the 10th house ruler if the MC falls in the 6 by StellarTiggy pankajdubey wrote:StellarTiggy wrote:Hi, Just a straightforward question here about a career horary. If the MC falls in the 11th house, do you still pay attention to the whole sign 10th? This horary has the 10th house ruler applying to the 1st house ruler (Mercury and Jupiter). However, the MC falls in the 11th house ruled by Libra, so do we care about Venus? It begins to get convoluted, honestly, because the 10th house ruler Mercury in Leo applies swiftly towards Jupiter in Gemini, while the Moon is in Libra, conjunct the MC, in mutual reception with Venus, BUT past the perfecting square (Moon in Libra in mutual reception with Venus in Cancer.) What do you think? Could they be telling the same thing Moon applying to a trine of 1st lord-Jupiter (from the square of MC lord Venus). Dear poster, I would post this chart for you if it didn't take an arm and a leg. The Moon (23 degrees Libra) was past the trine from Jupiter. It was applying to Saturn. So there was a Moon, Saturn, Mars (in that order) conjunction right on the MC in the 11th house. Some people say that's an argument for acquisition. And then there is also the application by sextile between the 10th house lord and the 1st house lord. Meaning either way the answer would be 'yes' but I hope this is not just wishful thinking. Quote Wed Aug 22, 2012 4:57 pm
7 by Tzadde The Moon is conjunct MC, thus is the most powerful planet, so we have to look closely to her. The conjunction with MC makes Moon the accidental significator of the career. Yes, the Whole Sign scenario points out a straightforward "yes", just the way you described, but you were wondering whether the same answer could be get by using a different House system, if I understood correctly your first post. If so, then I would say "yes", because Saturn also rules 1st, by the intercepted Capricorn in 1st. The Moon applies to Saturn, so there you have it. Also, notice the degrees between Mercury and Jupiter (around 2) and between Moon and Saturn (also around 2). That means in two days - movable Sign in angular House, because the Moon is used for time units in most horaries - you will get the job (if that was the question). Amor ordinem nescit. Love does not know order. - Saint Jerome - Quote Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:54 pm
8 by StellarTiggy Tzadde wrote:The Moon is conjunct MC, thus is the most powerful planet, so we have to look closely to her. The conjunction with MC makes Moon the accidental significator of the career. Yes, the Whole Sign scenario points out a straightforward "yes", just the way you described, but you were wondering whether the same answer could be get by using a different House system, if I understood correctly your first post. If so, then I would say "yes", because Saturn also rules 1st, by the intercepted Capricorn in 1st. The Moon applies to Saturn, so there you have it. Also, notice the degrees between Mercury and Jupiter (around 2) and between Moon and Saturn (also around 2). That means in two days - movable Sign in angular House, because the Moon is used for time units in most horaries - you will get the job (if that was the question). Tzadde, tomorrow will have been 2 days and I haven't applied to any jobs in the last 2 days!! But it might be 2 months, which is a little more realistic because this is my last semester in school! Quote Thu Aug 23, 2012 2:29 am
9 by Clinton Soule Stellar twiggy says: Just a straightforward question here about a career horary. If the MC falls in the 11th house, do you still pay attention to the whole sign 10th? This horary has the 10th house ruler applying to the 1st house ruler (Mercury and Jupiter). However, the MC falls in the 11th house ruled by Libra, so do we care about Venus? The Midheaven can never be in the horary's 11th, did you mean the horary's midheaven is in the querant's natal 11th? Also I have noticed many lately have not posted the data of the chart(time, place, date) in a concise manner where others can view the chart. It helps to be able to calculate it and view it. Also many are trying to post charts on astro.com and they have not tested the method they are using out properly and this is happening frequently. If you go to the post you can post the web link that stays, 'If' you bother following directions: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 91f2ccfb16 Quote Thu Aug 23, 2012 7:25 pm
10 by StellarTiggy Clinton Soule wrote:Stellar twiggy says: Just a straightforward question here about a career horary. If the MC falls in the 11th house, do you still pay attention to the whole sign 10th? This horary has the 10th house ruler applying to the 1st house ruler (Mercury and Jupiter). However, the MC falls in the 11th house ruled by Libra, so do we care about Venus? The Midheaven can never be in the horary's 11th, did you mean the horary's midheaven is in the querant's natal 11th? Also I have noticed many lately have not posted the data of the chart(time, place, date) in a concise manner where others can view the chart. It helps to be able to calculate it and view it. Also many are trying to post charts on astro.com and they have not tested the method they are using out properly and this is happening frequently. If you go to the post you can post the web link that stays, 'If' you bother following directions: http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic ... 91f2ccfb16 Let me make it more clear for you, THE HORARY'S MC FALLING IN THE HORARY'S 11TH HOUSE. You should check out some horary tutorials available for novices, I am sure they could help you get acquainted with horary. Quote Thu Aug 23, 2012 11:23 pm
11 by Tzadde Clinton, it is about two House systems, Placidus (as StellarTiggy have used in this particular case) and Whole Signs, in the same chart, and here MC have "fallen" in 11th Whole Sign. Amor ordinem nescit. Love does not know order. - Saint Jerome - Quote Fri Aug 24, 2012 9:27 am
12 by Paul It's really a simple question - which house system are you using? If you're using whole signs then you've already made the choice that the cusp of the 10th whole sign house is the key player, if you're using a quadrant based house system then you've already made the choice that the MC is instead. So just stick to the convention of whatever house system you've already chosen to use. Most use Regiomontanus because Lilly did it, and if it's good enough for him... but other people use whole and equal and whatever else. Quote Fri Aug 24, 2012 10:19 am