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Is there a future in this relationship?

 
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 528

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 3:13 am    Post subject: Is there a future in this relationship? Reply with quote

Question asked by a woman who is separated from her husband, and in a "friendship" with another man, who is much younger than her. She is attracted to him, but not sure of his feelings for her, or if the relationship is worth pursuing. She herself is not head-over-heels for him. The man has never indicated "direct" interest in her except as a friend because she is married, but has shown "indirect" interest, and now that she is separated from her husband, she is wondering if a relationship can build between the two of them.

"Is there a future in this relationship?"
Question asked August 8th, 2012, Berkeley Heights, NJ, 4:13 PM
16 degrees 33 minutes Sag rising.



The woman is represented by Jupiter and the Moon, the man by the ruler of the 7th Mercury, and possibly by Mars (younger man) and the Sun.

Jupiter (the woman) on the cusp of the 7th, indicating the woman is the more ardent of the two.

However, Mercury being the faster planet is coming to a sextile to Jupiter in 10 degrees, indicating that Mercury is the one that will actually make things happen. However, Mercury is peregrine, so I wonder if is it strong enough to actually make things happen? And is the orb too wide to begin with? One way strong reception, as Mercury receives Jupiter into its dignity, the man thinks very highly of the woman, so that helps the matter bring perfection.

Moon (co-significator of the querent) very strong in Taurus, in its exaltation and in a strong mutual reception with Venus, ruler of the 5th, and in the 5th. The woman has romance on her mind and strong enough to make it happen.

The Sun (the man) in Leo, also very strong in its rulership and triplicity. The Moon (flow of events) first trines Pluto in the first - indicating perhaps the end/death of something (her marriage?) and rebirth for the querent, followed by a square to the Sun. While there is no reception between the two planets, but there is an aspect, and both of them are so strong, I believe they can make things happen. The luminaries in aspect and so strong appear to indicate a positive outcome.

The Sun also almost exactly trining the ASC, further indication of a positive outcome to this question.

So all of this being said, I'm still not sure if the answer to this question is that Yes, the relationship will develop, or No it won't - conflicting testimonies: Mercury sextiles Jupiter with one way reception; but Mercury is so weak and the orb seems quite wide. Moon and Sun in square aspect, both very strong, but with no reception.

And where's the husband in all of this? What planet is he represented by?

Would appreciate your thoughts on this.

Thanks
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 392
Location: UK

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 1:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Taurus7,

In your post you wrote "friendship" in quotes, and I don't know if that means they are really friends or if they are having some kind of sexual relationship already. My guess is that the relationship is already sexual.


I use Venus and the Sun in relationship questions to show the sex drives of the woman and the man. So to your interpretation I'd add that the Sun is strong in his own sign, above the horizon, showing a sexually active and most likely attractive male. Lord 7 (Mercury) has recently turned direct and is under the sunbeams, approaching combustion. He is a fan of his own sex drive, literally ruled by it, and why not! In fact, the ephemeris shows that Mercury has already been through Leo to 12 degrees in July and since then has retrograded back to where he is now before turning direct on the day the question was asked. So this would imply that the man had been moving away from a sexual relationship with the querent for whatever reason but now he has changed his mind and decided to go through with it.

I feel I should point out, there is an element of unrequited love here. Lord 1 is in the sign of Lord 7, while Lord 7 is in the sign of the Sun. This implies that the man is more interested in sex than the person it is with. If he sleeps with her it will be more for sex and not so much who she is as a person. This is not to say that he does not like her, or that she is not his friend. It is simply that he is not in love with her or attached to her in the way she is towards him. She may get sex but she should not expect romance or a lasting committment!

Because of the movements Mercury has been through over the last month, he has already made his sextile to Jupiter at least once. So I would ask the querent if things have not already become sexual, at least in part. Perhaps some heavy flirtation or bed-sharing without full intercourse. This issue has been danced around for some time I would imagine.

The Moon being in Taurus, ruled by Venus, and Venus being ruled by the Moon while placed in the 7th house implies that the woman is likewise in the mood for romance, combined with the Moon's placement in the 5th house as you pointed out. So perhaps she is not so fussed on the quality of the relationship, perhaps she understands that it is sex she wants.

But for this type of relationship I do not like the position of Lord 1 in the sign of Lord 7 and approaching the 7th cusp, combined with Venus inside the 7th house. You are right that she is the one putting the pressure on him to go through with this, but she is also the one who is going to get hurt, if anyone is going to get hurt. It may be that the position of Lord 1 approaching the 7th cusp is enough to show she is independent enough to do this without getting hurt. And the Moon is strong in her own exaltation which hopefully shows good self-esteem.

As to the future of this relationship, there is the separating square from the Moon to Lord 7 and also the sextile from the Moon to Venus. This implies that some opportunity has already occurred.

As you point out, Mercury does apply to sextile Jupiter. However, this aspect is being re-made and so I would consider it a simple extension of whatever has already been going on in the past few weeks (or months).

The bottom line is that (in my opinion) Mercury and the Sun are simply not that interested in Jupiter, Venus or the Moon to bother making much of this. If there is a physical side to the relationship, it will not last long and she will most likely be disappointed (a planet in its own sign may be generous due to having so much wealth, but not because it has a genuine desire to care for another, if you pardon the euphemism!).

So if this were my querent I'd say, ok so you're feeling in need of some attention as a woman, and it's nice to be desired, but you can probably do a lot better than this guy. I'd tell her to go out and date other men and have some nice conversations over nice dinners, that sort of thing, not waste any more time on this situation.

All of this is just my opinion though since all the information I have is from your post and the cold reading of a single chart. Obviously since you know the lady concerned you will have all the facts to inform your judgement.

You mention lastly about finding the husband in the chart - Now this is a confusing thing to ask. Why do we need to find the husband? Is she thinking of going back to him?

Keren
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 528

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 4:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keren,
I love the way you have approached this chart, never really saw some of the angles that you have brought out. Just goes to show, no matter how long you've been studying horary, there's always something more to learn!

Based on my famiiliarity with the querent and the quesited, I agree with your analysis (i.e. it "fits" the situation). The power of "horary" never ceases to amaze me Shocked

To the best of my knowledge, the relationship has been as good friends, and is not sexual (but that's to the best of my knowledge - who knows!!)

Quote:
So this would imply that the man had been moving away from a sexual relationship with the querent for whatever reason but now he has changed his mind and decided to go through with it.

I think this would make sense in light of the fact that he was moving away from it because she was still with her husband; but now that she is separated, he may be considering the possibility.

Quote:
The bottom line is that (in my opinion) Mercury and the Sun are simply not that interested in Jupiter, Venus or the Moon to bother making much of this.

Agreed; personally, I don't think she will be wasting too much time feeling sorry for herself that this did not work out, the Moon is strong in her own exaltation; she is not lacking in her self-esteem.

Quote:
You mention lastly about finding the husband in the chart - Now this is a confusing thing to ask. Why do we need to find the husband? Is she thinking of going back to him?

Good question. If you take another look at the chart, you will see Uranus conjunct the 4rth - sudden, unexpected, uranian disruptive event in the home - that resulted in the separation. The Moon is separating from a sextile to Neptune in the 3rd; indicating a message, or something found out, with a bit of deception thrown in!

Yes, the separation has taken place, but since it hasn't gotten to the divorce state yet, there is always the possiblity of a reconciliation. So my question is, where's the husband in this chart? I think he should be in there, especially since the chart is showing the disruption and the reason for it Any suggestions?

Thanks again for your interesting and very spot-on analysis.
Very Happy
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 392
Location: UK

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 10:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Taurus7,

Yup, that's the interesting thing about horary, sometimes shows us a little bit more than we wanted to see!

OK, thanks for clarifying the situation regarding the querent's separation from her husband. To my mind a separation and possible romance with another man would preclude the possibility of reconciliation but that is just my personal view, to some extent that opinion of mine has clouded my judgement of the chart!

Good to hear she won't be wasting too much effort on this and that her self-esteem is indeed still healthy.

About the husband. Did she ask you to find the husband in the chart? Did she explicitly ask how her husband felt about her, or the chances of reconciliation? Or is it just that you expected to see the husband in the chart under these circumstances?

I'd look to Saturn to show the husband. I don't see her being fussed on her husband to be honest. Except that perhaps he is a better catch than this younger man (Saturn in its own exaltation vs peregrine Mercury). She may be regretting the change in lifestyle caused by the separation.

If the husband is shown by Saturn, the fact that Venus is in the fall of Saturn indicates the lady is no longer sexually attracted to her husband, in a very big way. She may even be repulsed by him sexually. But he is still attracted to her, since Saturn is in the sign of Venus. We also see Lord 1 in the triplicity of Saturn, showing she does have some affection for him still, but it's more a friendship or non-sexual love than anything else. (That's the flavour of triplicity in most situations.)

What's your take on this? Is she likely to go back to her husband? Or is this marriage over? My guess would be that with receptions like that from her planets to Saturn, for her the marriage, or at least the romance in her marriage, is well and truly over. Unless there are strong financial or social reasons why she cannot survive on her own, she seems likely to go her own way.

Keren
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Taurus7



Joined: 23 Oct 2003
Posts: 528

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
About the husband. Did she ask you to find the husband in the chart? Did she explicitly ask how her husband felt about her, or the chances of reconciliation? Or is it just that you expected to see the husband in the chart under these circumstances?

No, she did not ask (directly), but I sensed that he was there in the back of her mind and I thought he might show up and I could give her some comfort by giving her some idea of his state of mind, or where he is heading.


Quote:
I'd look to Saturn to show the husband.

I would agree, but Saturn is really strong, in its exaltation and triplicity and I wonder if he is actually in such a strong position? But then, I don't see what other planet could fit him either...


Quote:
What's your take on this? Is she likely to go back to her husband? Or is this marriage over? My guess would be that with receptions like that from her planets to Saturn, for her the marriage, or at least the romance in her marriage, is well and truly over. Unless there are strong financial or social reasons why she cannot survive on her own, she seems likely to go her own way.

I really can't say if this marriage is over, I don't know enough of their history. I believe both parties hold some love for each other. While what you say about the receptions is true, but I wonder if a conclusion like this can be made at all, since the horary was not asked about the husband? I mean, I've always heard that the horary answers the question that is asked and that alone, and everything else forms pieces of the puzzle that are related to the horary.

But, for argument's sake, let's say that the husband is Saturn. I notice that Mars is actually quite prominently close to Saturn and about to conjunct it. Mars rules his turned 5th and the radical 12th.. I wonder if this could be construed as a "hidden" romantic interest that he gets together with after separation from his wife?

But once again, I question (1) does Saturn really represent the husband (2) can a conclusion like this be made, given that the horary was asking a different question.

Any thoughts?
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kerenhappuch



Joined: 07 Jul 2005
Posts: 392
Location: UK

Posted: Tue Aug 14, 2012 10:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Saturn being strong could show the husband's strength in various ways, it does not mean he is a nice person. For example it could show he has a stable income, or a high status in the community. Or that the querent has experienced him as a dominating or possessive influence.

Personally I would not go looking for more info on the husband from this chart, because I agree with you on point 2. You are absolutely right that a new chart should be cast if she wishes to know about the possibility of reconciliation with her husband or some detail of his activities. (Ideally she should ask about her husband only when it is directly relevant to her, i.e. not to ask whether he is seeing someone else, unless it directly impacts on her because she wants to reconcile!) I said I thought she would not go back to him based purely on the receptions, which to me do not look indicative of reconciliation. However you are right that this conclusion is outside the scope of the chart and quite possibly inaccurate as a result.

On point 1, I would have to say that although my instinct says "yes, that is the husband", the chart was not about him and so we cannot expect to see the same levels of detail regarding the marriage as we would if the chart had been cast specifically about the marriage. I realise that sounds a little contradictory. I guess what I'm thinking is that if the husband is affecting her in this moment at all, he will be shown in the chart to some extent. But only to the extent that he affects the outcome of this particular question. It all depends if he is on the querent's mind and has been affecting her in the context of this relationship as to finding him in the chart (or not).

I understand that your instinct was to bring her some information about the husband although he was not directly asked about. My instinct would say the same if I had a similar querent! You are probably right that she was carrying the husband in her mind as she asked the question. It seems highly unlikely that she would not.

Thanks for posting this interesting chart. I'd like to find out what the actual outcome is of this chart if you're able to post an update in a few months!

Best,
Keren
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StellarTiggy



Joined: 17 May 2011
Posts: 148

Posted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it's a no. The Moon doesn't perfect with the significators, and the two primary significators don't perfect. I'd tell her to either go back to her husband depending on how she feels, or just find someone else. It doesn't even look like this one is worth it for her.
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