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Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding
Book II of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Compiled by Deborah Houlding
The Babylonian Astrolabe: the Calendar of Creation, by Rumen K. Kolev
Reviewed by Gill Zukovskis

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A Peregrine Planet

 
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LeeRutland



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: Mon Aug 06, 2012 11:33 pm    Post subject: A Peregrine Planet Reply with quote

In reading Bonatti's 146 Considerations, I ran up on this:

"The 55th Consideration is that you look to see whether a planetary significator is peregrine, because then it signifies that he whose significator he is (whether it is in a nativity or in a question, or in the beginning of some matter) will be clever, asture, malicious-for he will know how to do good and evil, and how to advance cleverly in all actions which he wished; however his intention will be more inclined to evil than to good".

This is a departure from all that I have read about the idea of being peregrine. Any comments on this?
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LeeRutland



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: Thu Aug 09, 2012 11:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

No one has an opinion on this??
If not, I will delete the post.
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure about my opinion, but I'll state it...

I remember that an astrologer wrote about peregrine planets being like foreign people, not fully trustworthy, just suspicios enough for the locals, as the foreigner's intentions are never known and especially if he or she doesn't want to disclose the goal of the visit.

The aporism might be based on this idea, but as I said, I can't be sure.
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LeeRutland



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is an interesting comment, and it falls in line with what Bonatti stated, but the general impression I had of a peregrine planet is that they are unable to function well, especially in a Horary, that while it might apply by aspect to a planet, the desired result often will not happen.
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Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeRutland;

The sources our host has read upon this article she wrote should be consulted for greater clarity.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/61857031/Peregrine

Clinton Garrett Soule
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LeeRutland



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 8:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, that was very informative. It seems to confirm my impression that a Peregrine planet suffers from a lack.
Everything I have read leans in that direction, so I am not going to take Bonatti's statement to heart.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Sat Aug 11, 2012 9:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:33 am; edited 1 time in total
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pankajdubey



Joined: 17 Nov 2006
Posts: 934
Location: Delhi

Posted: Sun Aug 12, 2012 6:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The OED traces the word like this:

Quote:
peregrine /0ˈpɛrɪgrɪn/ adjective & noun. LME.
[ORIGIN Old French & Modern French pérégrin from Latin peregrinus foreign, travelling, from pereger that is abroad or on a journey, peregre (adverb) abroad, formed as per-¹ + ager field: see -ine¹. Cf. pilgrim.]
► A adjective.
1 peregrine falcon, †falcon peregrine [translating Medieval Latin falco peregrinus pilgrim falcon, so called because the bird was caught full-grown as a passage hawk, not taken from the nest], a falcon, Falco peregrinus, of cosmopolitan distribution and much valued for hawking on account of its fast and accurate flying. LME.

2 Foreign; outlandish, strange; imported from abroad. Formerly also, extraneous to the matter in hand. E16.

3 Astrology. Of a planet: situated in a part of the zodiac where it has none of its essential dignities. L16.

4 Travelling; wandering. Formerly also, on a pilgrimage. M17.

G. M. Brown A single stroke took him…on the forehead; and, a peregrine spirit, he shook this world from him.



Special collocations: peregrine falcon: see sense 1 above. peregrine praetor Roman History a second praetor appointed at Rome to administer justice between Roman and non-Roman citizens and between non-Roman citizens themselves. peregrine tone one of the tones used in plainsong, in which the reciting note changes halfway through.


► B noun.
1 A person who lives or travels in a foreign land; an immigrant; a pilgrim. Long rare. M16. ▸ b Roman History. A resident in ancient Rome who was not a Roman citizen. L19.


2 A peregrine falcon. L16.


pereˈgrinity noun (a) the condition of being a foreigner or alien; †(b) foreignness, strangeness: L16.


(emphasis mine)

Think of a a resident in Ancient Rome who was not a Roman citizen and you will get the message.Think of the peregrine praetor of Rome trying to administer justice between Romans and Non- Romans as opposed to the "Urban praetor" who dealt with cases between the citizens.

I don't have access to this full article but it should be interesting:

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/298100?uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101141402627

The Roman Law of Nations is even more interesting:
https://www.law.upenn.edu/journals/jil/articles/volume26/issue2/Trnavci26U.Pa.J.Int'lEcon.L.193(2005).pdf

Quote:
2. THE LAW OF NATIONS AND IUs GENTIUM IN ROMAN LAW

Romans did not impose their private law on conquered peoples
(peregrines). On the contrary, peregrines were forbidden to use ius
civile (civil law). On one hand, they were allowed to regulate their
private legal relationships with their own customary law or the
law of their former (conquered) state, while on the other, Romans
did not allow peregrine law to govern private relationships between
peregrines and Roman citizens. That approach caused great problems in the trade among Romans and peregrines. In addition, the
relationships among peregrines from different parts of Roman Empire created a particular problem, since every province had had its
own law.
21

Romans let the conquered people(peregrines) use their own law but used the Roman law in disputes between Roman citizens and Non-Romans.

It seems that majority of the litigations related to vast sums of money and it is quite likely that the peregrine person was blamed as the thief who ran away with the money but if tried in a complaint against a Roman citizen- the Roman Law would have applied and he would not have the same rights then.

Just a guess of what was happening two millenia before Smile

PD

add:

This could well explain how the tag of thief came to be attched to the "peregrine"- depriving the romans of money and then trying to escape from a law system where they have either no rights or one which is heavily in favour of the citizen.
Take for example, a businessman in a Roman dominion who trades according to his local law amonst his own people but when he starts trading with a Roman businessman the same laws would not apply.
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LeeRutland



Joined: 20 May 2010
Posts: 27

Posted: Wed Aug 15, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just ran up on something written by Lilly in his Aphorisms and Considerations section which states"

"A Planet Peregrine, viz. having no Essential Dignities where he is, is malicious beyond expression: if he be in essential dignities, the less:"

This seems to follow the line Bonatti was taking, in that the planet is not necessarily powerless to act, but that those actions would bode ill for the thing signified.
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Geoffrey



Joined: 09 Jul 2012
Posts: 377
Location: Scottish Borders

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2012 1:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeRutland wrote:


"A Planet Peregrine, viz. having no Essential Dignities where he is, is malicious beyond expression: if he be in essential dignities, the less:"



Partridge pinches many of Lilly's aphorisms for his own "Century of Aphorisms", but he qualifies this particular one as (number 36):

"Saturn and Mars Peregrine are malitious beyond measure; but they are not so when they are essentially dignified."

Geoffrey
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Paul
Moderator


Joined: 23 Nov 2009
Posts: 1101

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

LeeRutland wrote:
I just ran up on something written by Lilly in his Aphorisms and Considerations section which states"

"A Planet Peregrine, viz. having no Essential Dignities where he is, is malicious beyond expression: if he be in essential dignities, the less:"

This seems to follow the line Bonatti was taking, in that the planet is not necessarily powerless to act, but that those actions would bode ill for the thing signified.


The power to act is shown more by accidental placements, such as being angular and so on. The essential dignities really show the quality of essence of the planet. Peregrine planets tend not to be fully in charge of their own resources so need to rely on the dispositor to help them out. In my view a peregrine planet ruled by a well dignified and strongly placed dispositor will not show this malign nature that Bonatti et al speak of. But when the planet's dispositor is not well dignified itself or cannot help the planet, then the quality of the planet's actions will reflect the quality of hte planet itself - in other words not particularly great and tending toward perversion/disintegration/malign qualities. Think of the analogy that even a well respected man will steal bread if he's homeless and hungry.
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favro



Joined: 29 Mar 2010
Posts: 16
Location: Canada

Posted: Sun Aug 19, 2012 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Paul wrote:
In my view a peregrine planet ruled by a well dignified and strongly placed dispositor will not show this malign nature that Bonatti et al speak of.



From Ben Dykes introduction to the Works of Sahl & Masha'Allah, page xviii:

"Reception can take away someone's disgrace in a bad situation, or confer honor in a neutral one. (44) And in cases where a leader is deposed, if his significator is received (even if peregrine, which again means being a pilgrim or foreigner), it shows him returning home." (45)


(44) Sahl, On Questions, sections 10.3 & 10.7
(45) Sahl, On Questions, section 10.8


favro
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