17
hey there nixx,

this idea (about benefices coming after malefics resulting in more 'fortunate' outcomes and the opposite etc. etc.) is probably connected to the use of primary directions..using clintons chart pd movements will bring mars or venus to the ascendant before jupiter..

perhaps a better example to see about applying the idea, if it holds some water would be on a chart like roger federer's. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Federer,_Roger
jupiter follows saturn closely.. if the time from memory is close, the primary direction of saturn will reach his ascendant before jupiter.. i note the solar arc direction of midheaven for federer using this same 840am time is square natal saturn at this time, while his natal chart has a close trine between midheaven and both saturn/jupiter.. i am not sure how much money he won in this last tournament he won, but i think it is substantial.. maybe this is a conversation for another thread, but federer will experience the solar arc of midheaven to saturn, before he experiences solar arc to jupiter.. from my own pov - both are favourable as they are both in favourable aspect to his midheaven..

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Kirk wrote:

Where do you get that? It's such a given in modern psychological astrology - forum posts at places like astro.com contain numerous talk of house 'stelliums'.
I've been on astro.com for yrs, on and off, and seen about 5 Psychological Astrologers there in that time. I'm talking about the Psychodynamic approach not the popular'character is fate' post Leo one. I spent 3 yrs at the CPA as well so you can take my word for it perhaps ? Houses where the Sun and Moon sit are the important ones in this schema. A stellium can be important of course it depends, not always.

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james_m wrote:hey there nixx,

this idea (about benefices coming after malefics resulting in more 'fortunate' outcomes and the opposite etc. etc.) is probably connected to the use of primary directions..using clintons chart pd movements will bring mars or venus to the ascendant before jupiter..

perhaps a better example to see about applying the idea, if it holds some water would be on a chart like roger federer's. http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Federer,_Roger
jupiter follows saturn closely.. if the time from memory is close, the primary direction of saturn will reach his ascendant before jupiter.. i note the solar arc direction of midheaven for federer using this same 840am time is square natal saturn at this time, while his natal chart has a close trine between midheaven and both saturn/jupiter.. i am not sure how much money he won in this last tournament he won, but i think it is substantial.. maybe this is a conversation for another thread, but federer will experience the solar arc of midheaven to saturn, before he experiences solar arc to jupiter.. from my own pov - both are favourable as they are both in favourable aspect to his midheaven..
Interesting idea, I can't really comment either way on the veracity of it.

Coincidentally I was looking at Federer's chart yesterday during the match and did think about this Morin notion. He has been at the top of the Tennis tree for about 8 years, by and large, and been a multi millionare, even billionaire?, for some time now.

A bit like Clinton mixed views about him, personally I find him a little arrogant and limited. However, I can imagine him being a Public presence for many years and commanding a lot of respect in the Tennis world at least.

23
It's worth pointing out that Nixx tends to capitalise psychological astrologer as Psychological Astrologer - I've mentioned this in other forums, but Nixx tends to differentiate between astrologers who focus on the psyche of the individual, which you and I would call psychological astrologers, and then those who are from the Liz Greene/Howard Sasportas/CPA School which he refers to as Psychological Astrologers. I've never been able to find an example of where Liz Greene etc refer to themselves like this, so it seems an odd idiosyncrasy.

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Nixx wrote:Psychological Astrologers don?t consider a house more important because it has more planets in it.
I think this is a debatable point. It's true that psychological astrologers do not consider, for example, empty houses unimportant, but that's not to say that they don't, generally, consider a house with many planets more important.

Many psychological astrologers do indeed consider a house with more than one planet as of extra importance or significance.

For example.

Howard Sasportas, The Twelve Houses:
Obviously, a house with many planets in it is very important... Any house containing two or more planets will assume extra significance in the person's life plan or purpose

27
Paul wrote:
Nixx wrote:
Howard Sasportas, The Twelve Houses:
Obviously, a house with many planets in it is very important... Any house containing two or more planets will assume extra significance in the person's life plan or purpose
The point I was trying to make to Kirk was that Psychological Astrologers don?t look at a house with 3 or more planets in it and go 'we must start there' or 'this is the crux' etc. I don?t recall there being a lot of Psychology in this book, or of the Psychodynamic kind, so perhaps somewhere between a p and a P.

Sasportas's view here I imagine would be somewhat similar to pre 20th Century Western Astrologers. Kirk may beg to differ?
Odd. I suppose we'll someday have mundane astrologers and Mundane Astrologers, horary astrologers and Horary Astrologers. A person could become weary of it all
You might call it a semantic convenience to use the 2 P's. Traditional Astrologers have similar issues in regards to whereabouts in the Tradition they pitch their interests. The shared ground is the lack of on occasions so conversations can get mighty and unnecessarily confusing if one does not define ones terms.

So if my natal chart's 3rd house is important then, following Morin, "when three, four, or five planets are in the same house this house is clearly more important than the others for it indicates something outstanding in connection with the affairs of that house" I'm left with something outstanding in connection with siblings, cousins, neighbours, letters, telephone calls, deeds, computers, and travel (esp. short distance travel). And a whole lot more.
I understand Morin entertained this axial semantic or 'reflective' house schema similar to the Psychological model (there is some interest in him in this sphere) .Conceptualising the 3rd as exchange/interchange, curiosity/articulation, e.g. Internet Astrology forum posts, we therefore also need to look at the 9th to more fully understand the dynamics/outcomes at play here for the individual, or poster.

I also understand that Morin was working with the one house is more fortunate than another idea and a planet having more in common , categorical analogies, with some houses than others. So quite rapidly a benefic might appear to him less rose tinted than at first glance. ?

So a chart with a benefic following a malefic in both houses might be worth digging out.