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Have you ever gotten this in a chart?

 
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Lakewind



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 103
Location: Buffalo area, New York State

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 4:54 pm    Post subject: Have you ever gotten this in a chart? Reply with quote

I always hesitate to ask questions here, because everyone else is way ahead of me,but I am curious about something that happened recently.Have you ever gotten a chart where all four"points" are at 0 degrees? I'm saying MC,IC,asc, and desc. It seems a great prohibition, but what is your view, and what does it signify? What is it saying, if anything, about the question? Libra was on asc, on a Saturday.Thanks
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 6:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

These four are indeed Horoscopic Points, for those who use Whole Sign Houses. If they are all in 0 degrees, I would take it as a warning, the situation might be way off than the querent says and might change a lot, especially in cardinal (or moveable, as old astrologers would say) Signs.

The chart is not radical, therefore I wouldn't venture delineating it.
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Lakewind



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
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Location: Buffalo area, New York State

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 7:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

OK Thanks.
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dastars



Joined: 17 May 2012
Posts: 53

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lakewind,

In my experience, if that has any significant meaning at all, it will always depend on the question. And in any case it does not stop me from judging a chart.
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 9:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've never heard of anyone considering early and late degrees for the MC-IC axis. My guess is that it looks like it should mean something. Zero degrees for all angles would look sort of dramatic.

I wouldn't totally discard a chart with 0 degrees rising. It's just a cautionary note.
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R.J. Smith



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 12
Location: West Kelowna, British Columbia

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 7:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Have you ever gotten this in a chart? Reply with quote

Lakewind wrote:
I always hesitate to ask questions here, because everyone else is way ahead of me,but I am curious about something that happened recently.Have you ever gotten a chart where all four"points" are at 0 degrees? I'm saying MC,IC,asc, and desc. It seems a great prohibition, but what is your view, and what does it signify? What is it saying, if anything, about the question? Libra was on asc, on a Saturday.Thanks


Hello Madame Lakewind...

Thanks, kindly, for your question on early house cusps, especially on the horary angles.

The answer to this question is NOT simple and therefore, I would not want to mislead you...or even lie to you...

On the surface, it would appear that Zero degrees rising means that you have thrown yourself a "gutter ball," since Zero to 3 degrees rising means that the question asked about is premature..and therefore, the chart is unreadable?

In other words, a stricture against judgement appears that renders the whole chart as going nowhere, for now...

Zero degrees rising is much like a car with a gasoline engine that has stalled in the middle of the highway... The car is not junk, but it may need more gasoline to make it run... Of course, cars stall for many reasons, but fuel is the first place where we look ?

Similarly, the question is suspended, due to circumstances beyond the control of the querent !

That said, there are many other factors to consider, including the ruler of the ascendant and its overall conditions, the question and house ruler asked about, etc, etc.

ALSO, if you or the querent has a natal planet conjunct the radix ascendant at zero degrees whatever, then that is highly significant and yes, keeps the ball in play !

For example, say you have Zero Libra rising in the horary chart and you are asking a question about a relationship, and the querent also happens to have Venus at 0 Libra, natally, well, the question is now EXTREMELY important and the whole chart is not only considered readable, but is significant ?

Perhaps you could post the actual chart, itself, and also, the question, and then, we could delineate it further...

take care,


R.J.




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Lakewind



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 103
Location: Buffalo area, New York State

Posted: Tue Jul 03, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for your info, RJ. Actually, I deleted the chart because I thought it would not be readable.
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R.J. Smith



Joined: 01 Jul 2012
Posts: 12
Location: West Kelowna, British Columbia

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lakewind wrote:
Thanks for your info, RJ. Actually, I deleted the chart because I thought it would not be readable.


For that very reason, you should always archive your horary charts for future reference !

Do you generate your horary charts through a home computer program or through the internet.


-RJS
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johannes susato



Joined: 04 Jan 2009
Posts: 1348

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 10:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tzadde wrote:
These four are indeed Horoscopic Points, for those who use Whole Sign Houses. If they are all in 0 degrees, I would take it as a warning, the situation might be way off than the querent says and might change a lot, especially in cardinal (or moveable, as old astrologers would say) Signs.

The chart is not radical, therefore I wouldn't venture delineating it.

In this special question these points are the Horoscopic points for every house system AC and MC being calculated identically by all astologers.

But as I don't use Whole Sign Houses I should like to know, whether 0 degrees of the moveable Signes are the Horoscopic Points really, or is not the whole Sign the Horoscopic "Point" rather, the ascendant for example?
(By the way only: 0 is a value not known in antiquity to my knowledge.)

Johannes
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Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

johannes susato wrote:
In this special question these points are the Horoscopic points for every house system AC and MC being calculated identically by all astologers.

I thought they are referred as Angular or Cardinal Points in other systems, but I admit I might be wrong about that.

johannes susato wrote:
But as I don't use Whole Sign Houses I should like to know, whether 0 degrees of the moveable Signes are the Horoscopic Points really, or is not the whole Sign the Horoscopic "Point" rather, the ascendant for example?

No, all the four points I referred to are Asc, MC, Desc and IC.

The Ascendant marks the degree, the House is on the whole Sign (hence the name Whole Sign Houses). Without the calculation of the Asc to the degree, you may not be able to establish the first House (at best, it might be roughly and with big margin error). Only the beginning of the first House differs in WSH than in other systems, but the Asc is in the same degree, regardless of the House system.

johannes susato wrote:
(By the way only: 0 is a value not known in antiquity to my knowledge.)

I assume Lakewind referred to the 0 degrees and several minutes, which means she was referring to the first degree, just as the old astrologers would say. I have to say, though, that nobody can say for sure whether the ancients knew about the zero value/number or not. It may be a controversial historical fact, so I'll leave that to history experts.
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