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The national horoscope - England's - Greece's cases
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Mjacob



Joined: 17 Nov 2011
Posts: 219

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A quick question to Mark if I may. You state that Ulster has nine counties
So where did I get the erroneous notion that each province of Ireland had eight each making 32 in all? Probably John Michell.

Sorry if this is numerology rather than astrology.

Matthew
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
Posts: 1381

Posted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:36 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas-Gazis



Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 21

Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well dear Kirk this is the second page of a topic I personally started. I 've written a lot of arguments in my previous posts but you isolated just a line of mine.

You wrote:

"hundreds of thousands of astrologers world-wide" practicing mundane astrology hardly meets the demand. You throw that very impressive number out there as fact, but take away the enthusiastic students and dabblers (specifically, of mundane astrology) and your figure will very possibly (likely?) be found to be considerably less"

Does it really matter? Is it so important to prove that my figure is considerably less? It could be less and it could be more. You see I can understand several languages and I am following various sites, lists and forums worldwide (in USA, Latin America, Italy, Spain, France, Germany, South Africa, India, Australia). All over I see people practicing a "National horoscope based" mundane astrology. But I am trying to be a free thinker and open to any other points of view. A long as they are based on sound arguments though and not on "characterizations" or "isolative dialectics"...
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###



Joined: 08 Jul 2004
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2012 9:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Thomas-Gazis



Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 21

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 7:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

So much for the free thinking and the democratic dialectics...

You gave us - we will resist etc...

It's like I came across a sort of "clique" in here...

Do you have any sound arguments or should we continue this low energies dialogue?
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###



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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:37 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4194
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thomas,

Sorry I haven't had time to reply to you yet.

I will be replying to you soon.

Mark

PS: I will be deleting this email after I post so dont bother replying here.
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Jul 30, 2012 9:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Mjacob wrote:

Quote:
A quick question to Mark if I may. You state that Ulster has nine counties
So where did I get the erroneous notion that each province of Ireland had eight each making 32 in all? Probably John Michell.

Sorry if this is numerology rather than astrology.

Matthew


Traditionally Ireland had 32 counties and Ulster had 9 of those.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counties_of_Ireland

From Wikipedia:
Quote:
The word "county" has come to be used in different senses for different purposes. In common usage, many people have in mind the 32 counties that existed prior to 1838 - the so-called traditional counties. As 26 of these traditional counties are located in the Republic of Ireland, many people, particularly Irish nationalists, refer to that state as "the 26 Counties" and to Northern Ireland as "the Six Counties".[2] However, in official usage in the Republic of Ireland, the term often refers to the 29 modern counties. The term is also conflated with the 34 areas currently used to demarcate areas of local government in the Republic of Ireland.


Ulster is one of the four traditional provinces of Ireland. Ireland has historically been divided into four provinces: Leinster, Ulster, Munster and Connacht. The Irish word for this territorial division, cúige, literally meaning "fifth part", indicates that there were once five; the fifth province, Meath, was incorporated into Leinster, with parts going to Ulster. The provinces of Ireland serve no administrative or political purposes, but function as historical and cultural entities. Many sporting leagues as in Rugby Union or Gaelic Football are organised on a province level.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provinces_of_Ireland



The division of Ireland into 5 Kingdoms preceded the Norman invasions in the middle ages. The 5th Kingdom was Mide (aka Meath) where the High Kings of Ireland were crowned at Tara.

Mide spelt Midhe in modern Irish and anglicised as Meath, was a medieval kingdom in Ireland for over 1,000 years. Its name means "middle", denoting the fact that lay in the middle of Ireland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Mide


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###



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Posted: Tue Jul 31, 2012 12:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

. . .

Last edited by ### on Wed Oct 24, 2012 12:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Roger030



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 9:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Being born in the Netherlands, I think that the 1581-chart works.
To me, sun in leo in 12 seem to fit, the Dutch people just don't like people being too unique/showing too much personality. If you ever visit holland, just see how dimmed the (sun-)light here is.
To me, Netherlands has a typical saturn in aqu/7 culture, the Dutch say, 'Act normal, then you're crazy enough', which make them seem very passionless and cool indifference.

With saturn in aqu/7 culture, you also have merc in leo/1, dutch are known to be blunt and errrrrrr.... direct? They have a real superficial talking culture. They like openness on a very superficial level, a lot of trivial talk, they enjoy communication without a clear purpose.

The english phrase, 'talking like a dutch uncle' also sounds very saturnine, correcting the people who in any way don't look and behave the same as others.

Strangely enough, all Dutch astrologers I know use the 1815-chart, the chart after the napoleon occupation. Unlike our neigbouring countries Germany and Belgum, hasn't had any revolutions since the 16th century (only the Belgium revolution).

Germany, 18 jan 1871, that capricorn-saturn clearly dominates the chart and saturnal they still are in every sense.

4 july 1776 to me is the birth of the USA - when that glorified piece of paper was signed, (there's no need to make new charts for the later added signatures). It's the chart of the 'american people' as opposed to their government that is.

(Wonder if ever such a chart for europe can emerge with all it's different cultures and languages.)

People who have great affinity with UK-chart(1801):

Bridget Fonda (usa-born but played in several british movies) has great affinity with UK-chart(1801)
Mars and Saturn angular on the same degree with the UK-positions and BF's prominent Jupiter on the UK North Node (always true nodes) degree and amazing lots of other affinity.

Neil Tennant (pet shop boys singer)
The moon's nodes angular on the same degree with the UK-positions.
NT's prominent jupiter on the same degree opposite the UK-sun.
NT's pluto on the same degree with UK's sun ruler, saturn and
the rest of it.

Andrew Motion (british poet)
(I don't have the data before me)
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Roger030 wrote:
Being born in the Netherlands, I think that the 1581-chart works.
To me, sun in leo in 12 seem to fit, the Dutch people just don't like people being too unique/showing too much personality. If you ever visit holland, just see how dimmed the (sun-)light here is.
To me, Netherlands has a typical saturn in aqu/7 culture, the Dutch say, 'Act normal, then you're crazy enough', which make them seem very passionless and cool indifference.

With saturn in aqu/7 culture, you also have merc in leo/1, dutch are known to be blunt and errrrrrr.... direct? They have a real superficial talking culture. They like openness on a very superficial level, a lot of trivial talk, they enjoy communication without a clear purpose.

The english phrase, 'talking like a dutch uncle' also sounds very saturnine, correcting the people who in any way don't look and behave the same as others.

Strangely enough, all Dutch astrologers I know use the 1815-chart, the chart after the napoleon occupation. Unlike our neigbouring countries Germany and Belgum, hasn't had any revolutions since the 16th century (only the Belgium revolution).

Germany, 18 jan 1871, that capricorn-saturn clearly dominates the chart and saturnal they still are in every sense.

4 july 1776 to me is the birth of the USA - when that glorified piece of paper was signed, (there's no need to make new charts for the later added signatures). It's the chart of the 'american people' as opposed to their government that is.

(Wonder if ever such a chart for europe can emerge with all it's different cultures and languages.)

People who have great affinity with UK-chart(1801):

Bridget Fonda (usa-born but played in several british movies) has great affinity with UK-chart(1801)
Mars and Saturn angular on the same degree with the UK-positions and BF's prominent Jupiter on the UK North Node (always true nodes) degree and amazing lots of other affinity.

Neil Tennant (pet shop boys singer)
The moon's nodes angular on the same degree with the UK-positions.
NT's prominent jupiter on the same degree opposite the UK-sun.
NT's pluto on the same degree with UK's sun ruler, saturn and
the rest of it.

Andrew Motion (british poet)
(I don't have the data before me)


Interesting post yours.
However,according to sociologists Marieke de Moiij and Geert Hofstede ,Holland is a feminine country, they dont like people who stand out and always try to level evryone.But so are Scandinavian countries with their Jante law. Yet I dont think they all have the Sun in 12th house. Maybe Andrew can show us the Norwegian and Swedish charts.
I just checked.Bridget Fonda doesnt have Mars/Saturn angular

http://www.astrotheme.com/astrology/Bridget_Fonda
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damon



Joined: 23 Sep 2012
Posts: 419

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree Mark.England has been a slave of Scotland and Wales for centuries.They should consider independence from those two Laughing
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Mark
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 4194
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Roger,

Welcome to Skyscript and the mundane forum!

Thanks for your mundane astrology comments. As you are new I just wanted to explain that the links you have given to celebrities with mundane charts is the kind of tangent we try to avoid here. Nativities are ok here if they are directly relevant to the political or social events occurring in a mundane chart. However, the natal configurations of celebrities like Bridget Fonda have no relevance here. Shocked

regards

Mark
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Last edited by Mark on Mon Oct 08, 2012 7:36 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Mark
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Posted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon wrote:
Quote:
I agree Mark.England has been a slave of Scotland and Wales for centuries.They should consider independence from those two.


Cheeky Monkey. Smile

Mark
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Roger030



Joined: 28 Jul 2012
Posts: 5

Posted: Tue Nov 13, 2012 5:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Damon,

I have read about Hofstede's terms once, but i don't think you can translate them easily in astrological terms. For example, the dutch are both UNmartian and UNvenusian (not likely to give compliments and suspicious of receiving them+they are not focused on style + women do not handle their femininity here quite obvious in comparison even to Belgiums/Germans). The tight sun/venus conjunction in 12 makes a lot of sense to me. Dutch are also known to be perceived rude and bad in customer service because in their perception everyone must be equal.
Being nice is not required here, being basic is.

Not liking people to stand is not just sun in 12, but also saturn in aquarius (on the angles to me), opposite aquarius is after all: LEO.'
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