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A 6H Mars in joy - Aries Ingress Chart
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Joined: 05 Dec 2011
Posts: 3708
Location: vancouver island

Posted: Sat Jun 30, 2012 3:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

hi mark,

thanks for commenting and sharing what looks like an interesting link as well. i agree with some of these ideas too. it is interesting to think of foundation charts, verses charts of significant moments in the unfolding of a nation. in this regard one could view moments in the life of a person as significant too, but all still going back to the original chart of birth.. as a side note, the 1789 -april 30 1245pm new york is my favourite chart for the usa. i am not as attracted to the ones for 1776.. this is based on considering this chart for the first presidency of the usa more seriously and thinking it has greater relevance. - james
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Joined: 19 Feb 2012
Posts: 21

Posted: Sun Jul 01, 2012 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello dear Mark! Great to have astrological discussions with you!

Let's see your arguments: You wrote me: "My problem with your position is more fundamental than that. I simply dont agree that one chart can sum up a country".

First of all, that's not "my" position but the position of millions of astrologers all over the world.

You don't agree that a chart can sum up a country. That's your position dear Mark, a position you are backing up with Bill Sheeran's theory "there is no birth chart for a nation"!

But as Bill Sheeran himself confesses, this theory was actually brewed in his mind after a years long failed attempt from his side to determine a proper national horoscope for Ireland! But how could he do that when Ireland is not currently a whole, entire Nation State but a "half" one, since it has been divided (by an external force) in two parts? Ultimately, the difficulty in determining Ireland's National Horoscope brilliantly mirrors the fact that there is no entire Ireland but a "severed" one currently!

You see Mark if there is no birth chart for a nation then there shouldn't be a birth chart for a city, nor for an association, a corporation, nor for a shop. Maybe there shouldn't be birth charts for human beings too...Yes, maybe we are in that kind of illusion! Maybe it would suffice to study the prenatal Lunar eclipses or ingresses of a human being (as Sheeran instructs us to do in the case of nations) and NOT his birth chart!

At some other point in his article Sheeran is writing: "In my analogy, and taking a leaf from C. G. Jung". He is taking a leaf from Jung but he is not taking in consideration Jung's major axiom: "whatever is born or done at a particular moment of time, has the quality of that moment of time". But this is a major astrological axiom too. "Things, situations, beings etc. are born at a specific moment in time and bear the quality of that moment in time"! That's elementary astrology dear Mark. Unless we want to impose a new "quantistic" astrology where things, situations, beings are born through an array of moments in time and in various parallel universes...

So dear Mark you admire Bill Sheeran's theory but apparently you don't apply it! You have ventured - for example - on doing predictions for Greece and you always stick to the very same chart: the 1975 Greek constitutional "amendment" chart! This goes against Bill Sheeran's "structural coupling" theory! I have never seen you for example taking in consideration in your studies the 13th January 1822 (NS) chart, the one stemming out of the Declaration of Independence of the Greeks from the Turks (who had militarily occupied Greece for 4 centuries), the chart I propose as the "national horoscope" of Greece). There is no structural coupling in your Greek predictions but a unilateral use of a "Greek constitutional amendment" chart. Bill Sheeran would be mad with this kind of "unilateral" reasoning...
Know Thyself
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Joined: 30 Sep 2005
Posts: 5138
Location: Edinburgh, Scotland

Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello Thomas,

I have replied to the same post by you on the other ongoing thread: The national horoscope - England's - Greece's cases

‘’As thou conversest with the heavens, so instruct and inform thy minde according to the image of Divinity…’’ William Lilly
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