skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Book III of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Notes on Dorotheus III: the haylāj, Kadhkhudāh, and terms of life
by Deborah Houlding
Godfather of Modernity: The Alan Leo Legacy Vol. One - Early Astrological Journals 1890-1912, compiled by Philip M Graves
Reviewed by Deborah Houlding
Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Will I go to trial on this case?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 8:40 pm    Post subject: Will I go to trial on this case? Reply with quote

Forum membership,

As most of you know there are and can be electional charts within an electional chart.

Like when one sets up an electional for a company then they have other electional events in different business deals like Howard Hughes used to do in his airplane hangers at weird hours of the night as his astrologer advised.

And we have a difficult query that we have been trying to solve, "Will I go to Jail?" So the querant and I have been talking and he asked this query:

Question: Will I go to trial on this case?

Time: 12:18 am 1218 hours

Date: 6 / 19 / 2012

Place: Reno, Nevada, USA 119 W 49 39 N 32

Please do not enlarge or re-calculate a chart from this chart web page address, as they tend to disappear:

http://www.astro.com/cgi/chart.cgi?;lang=e;gm=a1;nho2=;btyp=2;mth=gr;sday=19;smon=6;syr=2012;hsy=5;zod=;orbp=;rs=2;add=18;node=-Yn;pfday=-YP%201;fix=1;ast=&nhor=1&cid=mywfilePcZThH-u1340133869

Yes this is from our perplexed querant on the recent 'jail' query.

Virgo is the Asc. at 20virgo27 with Mercury as lord in the 10H at 21cancer31.

Luna is coming out of a cjt. with the Sun, a lunation, new moon, very bad omen, at 0cancer53.

As we know my benevolent Forum it would appeaer the first aspect would be to speedy Mercury yet they won't perfect for a while in that cjt. And the trine to Mars won't perfect til after the Moon Squares Saturn which is Rx; so our querant is in a bad way with worry about jail, etc.

However, Zeus/Jupiter is the lord of the quesited, the 7H for trials, and he is in the 9th at 1Gemini49. Jupiter and that beauty Antrodite/Venus in Rx will not perfect so that's not a yes. And Jupiter will Never make that squ to Mars. But unfortunately that mean ole Saturn is waiting for Jupiter as Jupiter will eventually trine Kronus/Saturn but it's Not in orb or moiety, in fact it's a trine with 20 minutes 58 seconds applying to Saturn Rx; almost 21 degrees but the first aspect to perfect. Is this wide distance going to put the querant in a trial?

The Moon in the 10th will cjt. the lord of the 10th, the judge, in two days, or could that just be a deputy that the querant comes in contact with at his residence as both significators are in Cancer yet the 10th?

Now we may be getting somewhere to relieve the querant's anguish and some light on their future!


Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Lakewind



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 103
Location: Buffalo area, New York State

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 12:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't often comment on other's postings here because I don't feel competent enough, but I would like to ask two questions: What is particularly bad about the moon leaving the sun? And why don't you insert your charts to make it easier to follow? I agree things look tight for your client, though.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Yahoo Messenger
geo



Joined: 07 Oct 2011
Posts: 121
Location: Athens, Greece

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello Clinton Soule,
could you please clarify the question? Is it "will I go to jail" or "will I go to a trial"?
Cause, if it's the first case, Moon has just separated from Sun (L12) and entered the sign of its rulership, probably showing that the querent has just escaped prison..

Georgia
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chad Henry of Horary Hour Forum gave his permission to post:

Quote:
First off, in my years of study, I haven't heard of an election chart within an election chart. Doesn't mean the technique isn't valid, just haven't come across it in the literature. I don't even do elections, except for money, since my teacher feels that elections aren't valid--if something isn't promised in the natal chart, it won't happen no matter how much you elect it, no matter how you propitiate the gods.
So, this appears to be a new horary on the same question. Again, paraphrasing Frawley, the truth is like an earthworm--no matter where you cut it, it's still a segment of the same original whole. And since we aren't given the complete details, we can only look at the chart and go "will querent go to jail, as he or she asks?" So querent: L Asc and Moon. Jail, L 12. Here, Mercury rules Asc. Sun rules 12th. Moon applying to conjunct Mercury in 21 time units. Moon carrying light from jailer to querent. So, answer is yes, querent goes to jail (even though and this is the part that bothers me) even though no arrest has been made. Still querent wants to know if he'll go to jail. The one thing that may prevent this from happening is if the moon perfects her sextile to Mars or her square to Saturn before she conjoins Mercury. These might possibly prevent the jail thing from happening.
There doesn't seem to be anything about court, a lawyer, a judge, or a trial in this question, so it doesn't help to look at 10th for a judge or 4th for an outcome.
True, the Moon and Mercury are not within orb of each other at present, and Sun L 12th jail is not particularly strong here--Mercury a little stronger in Terms and Face. But at present there's nothing to stop Moon from reaching Mercury pretty soon unless the aspects to Mars or Saturn act as a last minute reprieve.
The main thing I would say from my POV is: don't complicate matters too much! Don't confuse things! Querent wants to know if he's going to jail! Look at the dignities, receptions, and applying aspects. One thing, Sun is about to change signs, and Moon has just changed signs. There is a change in circumstances being shown here. What might those be?
chad


The Forum will hear my reply to Chad's message shortly.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lakewind said:

Quote:
"I don't often comment on other's postings here because I don't feel competent enough, but I would like to ask two questions: What is particularly bad about the moon leaving the sun?"


The issue of my post I was referring to was the Lunation, a New Moon, I didn't mention that this New Moon is also called Combustion, which Lilly says is very bad for the querant, as the querant is always represented by the Moon regardless of the lord of the Asc. And in Ancient times the new moon within 12 hours of being exact was feared so badly that two nations planning to wage a battle that day upon hearing from their astrologers decided to all go home as even with a winner of the battle there would possibly be too many widows from the catastrophe.

You might check my post about the USA Presidential election of McCain vs. Obama on the fact no other astrologer caught the Lunation influence just as professional Ganivet missed it in his horary:

http://skyscript.co.uk/forums/viewtopic.php?p=32723&highlight=&sid=82dc40bec1fc4f7f4034c1903651fb51

Also don't worry about appearing non-adept at understanding astrology, particularly horary. Many Moderne horary writters sell thousands of books on their misconceptions and many of us got confused about these questionable methods.

But as you study Traditional sources you'll see their mistakes and confusion just as I constantly see my own. Besides Lakewind, few post their name on this forum maybe where they don't get embarrassed, but I don't worry about being a comitted student because I know if astrolgers had all the pieces that other colleague astrologers knew they would be Kings owning their own countrys or on the staffs on various powerful governments.

Quote:
And why don't you insert your charts to make it easier to follow? I agree things look tight for your client, though


Lakewind, I've stated it via our Forum before, that either when I'm traveling and using other computers as I presently hate using laptops and I can't load a large computer ensemble into a vehicle very well, I generally find the system won't let me post as many do on the computers I may utilize in the area I may be traveling through. I would appreaciate anyone so generous to post the chart for others that know how for any of the horary queries that many ask.

Or, I'm just illiterate and the part of me is so ignorant on how to accomplish this that I have applied a different method. ROTFL Or it could be the fact my communication house has one of those 'horns on the head signs' upon it's cusp that makes me a butt-head from time to time like others we know. LOL

I don't think I really helped answer your first question well and it's a very worthy question and needs further scrunity by others of the influence while it leaves the Sun. Perhaps your question may come under Lilly's concepts of Occidental and Oriental in planet's relationship to the Sun?

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know

http://www.newsreview.com/reno/star-reader/content?oid=22904
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geo says:

Quote:
hello Clinton Soule, could you please clarify the question? Is it "will I go to jail" or "will I go to a trial"? Cause, if it's the first case, Moon has just separated from Sun (L12) and entered the sign of its rulership, probably showing that the querent has just escaped prison..


Thanks Geo, as I was trying to convey, these are two different horarys or quesited from two different queries. As in some USA states one can be arrested and it never goes to trial as I'll explain.

From my post on this same horary via Angelicus Merlin Forum:

"IE. In California they have a marijuana industry that all the Sheriff departments know who the big time growers and the big pushers are and the local dealers; typically no one gets prosecuted unless another criminal act is involved even if the DEA, Drug Enforcement Agency, a federal agency enforces the anti-marijuana laws somewhat strictly in most states. The problem is California and the West Coast are the drug capitals of the nation and it's very hard to get a jury that aren't users or sympathetic to the crime recognized by the Federal govt. Even the Sheriff and Mayor in Medicino county, Ca., has been on Television claiming that 60% of that county's money is from marijuana.

IE. #2 In California, if you are wrongly arrested and go to jail or prison you are compensated thru a lawsuit against the city or state. In Nevada if one is falsely or wrongly convicted and goes to prison for 10-20 years, the state's laws protect the state and the individual can not have a suit against the state; It's just tough luck, they could lose their home, business, family, and their reptutation could be falsely or wrongly smeared and there is nothing the wrongly incarcerated individual can do. I know this as fact as one of the very few attorneys I have any trust in was involved in getting an innocent man out of prison who had been there over 10 years.

IE. #3 Now this may just hurt some people's opinions, but I know of a lady who was pedifiled many times. And I attended a rape siminar a few years ago where the prosecuting attorney said that 95% of the convicted rapists after incarceration repeat their crimes and 99.99% of the nation's convicted pedifiles repeat their crimes after imprisonment. And for a good example, there was a university student raped on campus a few years ago in the parking garage and it was made known there were over 100 registered sexual offenders in residence within one mile of that building at the time of the crime. And he repeated the crime on another girl and murdered her leaving the body by the airport.

These are just a few of the tradgedys in U.S. law and the courts.

. . . . as we know we can Not ask the same question twice, but it happens all the time that in Nv. someone can go to jail and the case will be dismised. To my knowledge there aren't any witnesses but the querant and the individual they had the confrontation with. And if you remember the horary on 'going to jail' the Moon was essentialy exalted and in the tenth. The individual does have a good reputation with some(law personell) in the community, where the other individual has a record longer than your arm, a real tradgic character as some call a low life, and that is most likely why after 4 days, remember the Moon was sextiling Mercury in a little less than 4 degrees and Mercury was lord of the 12th, jail, the querant has had no officers approach them as evidently there is 'no warrant' for their arrest. Possibly because the other involved was seen to have lied and pre-fabricated everything as he has a malicious reputation.

Now back to this horary which is Not the same horary as in the U.S. one can go to jail for months yet not go to trial and Not be compensated by the state or city for wrongful arrest; it's done all the time as the jails are so full that judges in Nv. frequently let the guilty out with time served, ...sometimes one overnight stay in jail for some misdomeaners. Like in California if there was a fight both go to prison as a felony, in Nevada it's about a week in jail and $360 fine, in Montana it's expected that you fight as a man and there is generally no arrest and the law will break it up and unless there is much bodily harm or a weopon is used no one does any time.

Now what I'm wondering is from this horary on the 'court case', with the lord of the 7th, Jupiter in a 21 degree applying positive aspect before it perfects, will there be that trial?

. . . . I was reading Lilly's orbs that he borrowed somewhat from Al Biruni, yet varied and it's Not in orb. Now I'm trying to get rid of the neptunian misconceptions from Modernes, but if that aspect perfects regardless of the wide application of near 21 degrees before it leaves the sign does the matter generally manifest providing other testimonys don't contradict?"


Your Most Humble Obediant Servant

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men know how little they know

http://www.newsreview.com/reno/star-reader/content?oid=22904
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Clinton Soule



Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Wed Jul 18, 2012 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Geo, thanks for the confirmation of the Moon separating from the cjt with the lord of the 12th, the sun. This follows what Guildo Banatus said and Lilly borrowed of 'the last aspect of the Moon showed what has recently happened..'.

For those ulta Modernes who may be caught in the Outer Trap, and during the present Mercury Rx I'm not being cruel, but the Venus by Rx did Not bring about a trial as it sextiled Uranus. By Traditional standards Venus will Not perfect the cjt to Jupiter and Venus is unaspected, meaning 'no aspects equals no action'!

For those who caught up on the "Will I go to jail horary?" didn't happen! And in this nation one can go to jail yet not face a trial as the case may be dismissed or something simular to time served can be the result, so this trial question, " Will I go to trial on this case?" was Not the same as going to jail query. In other words there is no trial on this case.

I.E. One may ask a horary about if they would make a 300% profit off of investment capital and it could come 'No'. Then one is free to ask if the querant would make at least 250% profit and it could come up 'yes', but you can never as I understand after you ask about the 300% profit and it says no, so you ask '..if you can make a 325% profit?' Which is all kinds of wrong as the 300% profit question has already failed; can't be asked again.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know

http://www.newsreview.com/reno/star-reader/content?oid=22904
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Horary & Electional Astrology All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated