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Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direction

 
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cgreen



Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 18

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:12 pm    Post subject: Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direction Reply with quote

Hi,
I've read their methods but i don't understand the methods
Ptolemy
Quote:

there are two modes of prorogation, one into succeeding signs when the prorogator may be in oriental place( ASC to MC), this mode is only to be used . The other mode extends into signs preceding the prorogator, called horary proportion. When the prorogator may be in any place receding from MC, both modes of prorogation are adopted.



What if the prorogator is ASC or Part of Fortune ?

In prorogation mode into signs preceding, the only aneretic degree is is that of the Western horizon(7th house)

What are the horary times proper to each degree?

How do the the benefics increase the prorogation, but the malefics diminish it; and Mercury assists the influence of either party with which he may be configurated?

How do you find the aneretic place?

Thanks
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1311
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:46 pm    Post subject: Re: Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direc Reply with quote

cgreen wrote:


In prorogation mode into signs preceding, the only aneretic degree is is that of the Western horizon(7th house)

What are the horary times proper to each degree?

How do the the benefics increase the prorogation, but the malefics diminish it; and Mercury assists the influence of either party with which he may be configurated?

How do you find the aneretic place?

Thanks


I believe Martin Gansten can say more than me, I don't believe the second method was very used in practice.

In every case a couple of years ago I re-did for my blog an example taken from Placido.

http://heavenastrolabe.net/horimea/

margherita
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cgreen



Joined: 21 May 2012
Posts: 18

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:33 pm    Post subject: Re: Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direc Reply with quote

margherita wrote:


I believe Martin Gansten can say more than me, I don't believe the second method was very used in practice.

In every case a couple of years ago I re-did for my blog an example taken from Placido.

http://heavenastrolabe.net/horimea/

margherita

Hi margherita,
Is Martin Gansten a member in this forum?

Quote:
So when the prorogator is in the first quadrant, the deadly direction will be in the order of signs, but when the prorogator is between MC and DESC, the deadly direction will be the one which crosses the Descendant.

What do you direct to cross the Descendant, the deadly direction?
In the order of signs, would the deadly direction be to the ASC?

Quote:
When we are considering a planet in its direction to the setting point, other rays this planet meets are not deadly, just add or take away years.

Obviously this method is linked with the 360 years of planets, as indicated by the terms they rule: 57 to Saturn, 79 to Jupiter, 66 to Mars, 82 to Venus, 76 to Mercury.7

Rays this planet meets natally or in its direction? How do you use these 360 years of planets in this method?

Quote:
Sun

99.26-(45.31-23.49)= 99.26- 21.42= 77.44

Now we should add and take away according benefic and malefic rays of planets, as in Ptolemy’s chapter.

Venus

The direction of Venus to Descendant:

83.50-(360-344.43+45.31)= 83.50-60.48= 23.02

now Placidus says that if the whole arcus 167.40 gives 13.57 temporal hours, how much will give the direction arc of 23.02?

i.e. 23.02/12= 1.55 (Placidus writes 1.54)

Where did you get those numbers you use for the planets?

Thanks
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Martin Gansten
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Joined: 05 Jul 2008
Posts: 1052
Location: Malmö, Sweden

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:44 pm    Post subject: Re: Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direc Reply with quote

cgreen wrote:
Is Martin Gansten a member in this forum?

He is indeed, Wink but he is also rather overworked at the moment and hasn't much time for posting. If you are interested in learning primary directions thoroughly (including but not limited to these life-span techniques), you might consider taking my online course:
http://www.martingansten.com/pddc.php
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margherita



Joined: 10 Mar 2008
Posts: 1311
Location: Rome, Italy

Posted: Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Ptolemy and Bonatti, Alcocoden, Hyleg, Anareta and Direc Reply with quote

cgreen wrote:

What do you direct to cross the Descendant, the deadly direction?
In the order of signs, would the deadly direction be to the ASC?



In this case- the second method of directing- the Descendant is the deadly point and planets are carried to it against the order of the signs, which is the motion of the primum mobile.

The Sun in Placido's example is in the 8th house and grants a life until it meets the Descendant, benefic and malefic encounters add and take away according their position.

Placido uses the semiarc to measure the distances. So if the the whole Sun semiarc is the distance from MC to Descendant= 99.26, but the Sun is at a distance from meridian of 21.42, the Sun is far from Desc 99.26-21.42=77.44 which are the years the Sun grants.

Now you should add and take away the rays of other planets according their positions calculated in the same way, (arc - meridian distance)/12 (for an hour).

For example for Venus the semiarc is 83.50, the meridian distance 60.48 (RA MC- RA VE), so we will have (83.50-60.48 ) /12=1.54 which are the years added by Venus.

Data were taken from Placido, but you can use the speculum in Morinus software. There if you set Placido houses you will find all these data choosing them from Options/Appearance II.

In every case as I told this is Placido way of re-thinking Ptolemy chapter. It seems to me other authors commented this chapter in a different way.

margherita
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