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Skyscript Astrology Forum

Will I be incarcerated"

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Clinton Soule

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Fri Jun 15, 2012 5:33 pm    Post subject: Will I be incarcerated" Reply with quote

The querant asked:

Will I go to jail?

Time: 7:59 a.m. 0759 hrs.

Date: 7 / 15 / 2012

Reno, Nevada, USA 119W49 39N32

If one goes to, and uses the Liz Greene style of horoscopes, and keeps the size at 75%, and Does Not enlarge the horoscope, but Copys & Paste the web address of the horary chart to the Forum Post, an artist can Send, or Download the map to their screen, and it may make it easier for Forum members to work with. Do Not enlarge or change the data on or the horoscope may dissapear I have found. When you are done with the horoscope just hit that 'X' icon that gets rid of the webpage and all is well! The horary chart in question that one may click upon and it magicly appears:

Note: You can't change the data or try to calculate another chart or the new chart will take the horoscope's place.

Cancer is Ascending at 25can43 and the lord, Luna is at 11tau07 in it's Essential Exaltation.

Mercury at 14can55 and in the 12th is lord of the 12H, jail or incarceration, and it recieves an applying sextile by the Moon with 3 degrees and 48 minutes applying. The Sun is at 24gem54, within 3 degrees of the 12th cusp, using Lilly's 5 degree rule the Sun is in the 12H also, appropriate for the question relating to jail.

Well it looks to me that the querant is going to jail yet because the 4th of the matter, the 3rd, with Virgo upon it's cusp, and as stated Mercury is being sextiled by a essentially exalted Moon not only within Lilly's orbs and moietys but a short distance of less that 4 days. So I'm thinking the querant could be arrested in 4 days. But because of the sextile to the lord of the 4th of the matter, the 3H, I think the querant will work it out positively with authoritys.

All comments and contrary arguments are welcome as few want to see anyone go to jail unless they are truly deserving.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men truly know how little they know
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cor scorpii

Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, the querent will go to jail because there are multiple testimonies which point to the same conclusion.

The first would be the Moon's application to the ruler of the 12th sign/mundane house in the 12th.

The second is that Mercury himself commits its disposition to both malefics, Mars and Saturn and will perfect its square without reception with Saturn first, Saturn being in the 4th(jail) and the ruler of the 8th(jail again, according to Bonatti).
Moreover, Saturn is the natural ruler of incarceration and joys in the 12th.

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Joined: 03 Apr 2008
Posts: 200
Location: England

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:04 pm    Post subject: Will I be Incarcerated? Reply with quote

Confused Hi Clinton Soule,
I have just noticed that the date you have given for this Horary question is 15 July (7th) not June. Is this a mistake on your part & have you cast it from June or July?
Thanks SG.

Enjoy what you learn,as it keeps the mind youthful!!
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cor scorpii

Joined: 03 Jan 2008
Posts: 580

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Smile

Well, the position of planets in the chart certainly corresponds to 15 June 2012.

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Clinton Soule

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Sat Jun 16, 2012 9:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

SaturnGirl helpfully pointed out my mistake:

Hi Clinton Soule,
I have just noticed that the date you have given for this Horary question is 15 July (7th) not June. Is this a mistake on your part & have you cast it from June or July?

Yes, the horoscope enclosed in the webb address is correct, however I accidently put 7 instead of the correct number 6 in the date of the month. Thank you SG, and let that be a lesson to all of us as Lilly pointed out 'we must be credible and accurate for our art, both for the strength of the science and our own reputations.'

Yet, despite Lilly being a man of religious conviction and who had Sol in Taurus, Lilly did admit to a few mistakes he honestly made in CAII.

IE. In 4th house matters in CAII, Lilly points out on the query he made about B's house he wanted to buy how he made mistakes in judgment as he being the querant really wanted that house.

Also note how Lilly talks devoutly of religious faith in CAI. Well he was Pisces rising and note his Jupiter! What am I pointing out here in these two factors from CA? Most of you know that generally Taurus is Not a hypocrite and some Moderne writters have wrote that 'Taureans are the sign that one will find less than any other sign in divorce court because Taurus hates to admit they made a mistake.'

So for Lilly to tell on himself and that he made a few errors is very big on his part being a Taurus Sun is it not?

And as you noticed it's impossible to be JUly at the moment!

Shame on me! LOL

Other horary artists that I have consulted on this matter pointed out:

1) Since there are cardinal signs on the angles and Mercury lord of the matter is in the cardinal sign of Cancer it will happen fast and incarceration will Not last long, cardinal signs are the fastest on the angles and of short duration.

2) However one artist has pointed out and like #1, who has Not posted via this Forum, there are doubts due to this horary of whether the querant will be incarcerated at all.

I will ask if I may use the quotes and data from these artists from another source.

So far as I understand the querant has Not been approached by authoritys on the matter in question.

As many of you have noticed via this thread, Saturn as lord of the artist is in bad shape being Rx, and Saturn as lord of the 7th says the horary Needs other consultants for accurate analysis.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise men trully know how little they know
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Clinton Soule

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chad Henry has Given his permission from Horary Hour Forum for me to post his comments:

Chad Henry via Horary Hour Forum:

Hi, I'd be interested to learn the outcome of this question. It does look on the face of it that the querent will go to jail, since Moon L Asc applies immediately to sextile Mercury L 12, jail, bringing together the querent and the jail--also the fact that Mercury L 12 is IN querent's 12th. Two details make me wonder though--one, Mercury L 12th "loves" Moon, receiving Moon into her rulership. When there are such positive feelings between two significators or from one significator toward another, we might speculate that querent will not in fact go to jail. The other detail is that the applying aspect is a sextile, generally a positive kind of relationship. Some will say though that the sextile will just grease the wheels--make querent go to jail faster, do not pass GO, and with less fuss.

I don't know what to say since I don't know the details, but the first judgment says "yes" because of the applying aspect, but the sextile and the receptions may spare querent the embarrassment of going to jail. Wish I knew the charges. Sorry to be indecisive. I don't know if we need to look at L 4, end of the matter, in this kind of chart. Can't recall what the tradition says about that. I know we use L 4 in medical and court case charts.

A couple other quick thoughts--according to some, a planet in its exaltation is somewhat overconfidant, or overestimates its own worth. Moon in 10th has accidental dignity because she's angular. She's not in the sign of the cusp, but still in 10th, so querent's situation may protect him or her from going to prison. You don't say whether querent is facing a trial, or has already gone through one, or if q. fears arrest for some other reason. However, Moon's accidental dignity may save querent from being imprisoned.


For terminology, we don't need to say "essentially exalted", just exalted. "Essential dignity" just means that a planet is in the sign of its rulership, exaltation, or triplicity. Accidental dignity is when a planet is angular or some other conditions as well (check my favorite astrology resource,
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Clinton Soule

Joined: 14 Sep 2008
Posts: 471
Location: Reno, Nevada

Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 8:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

From the Forums of Horary Hour and the great horary artist, Dorothy J. Kovach's Angelicus Merlin Forum:

The *Exciting Conclusion* and details that I had to omit to protect the querant!

I know as a few of you off-list have been asking about the exciting results of this query and I'll give my reasons why I'm going to wait a day or two as the stationary Mercury will keep the data there for posterity and study. In other words I'd rather Not post the results of this exciting horary that is far different than most we will ever attempt to solve.

Please don't enlarge or re-calculate another horoscope from this chart as it tends to disappear, and I hope this horoscope is Not offensive to any of our beloved Ultra-Trads:

You note from the Lord of the matter, Mercury is being sextiled by Luna, the lord of the horary in 3 degrees and 48 minutes applying. Now as most of you realize that is typically a time factor of either days or weeks as:

1) Cancer in rising with Luna in the angular 10th in Tau; this gives a blend of being fast and slow in regards to the tau Moon

2) Mercury is in the 12th in cancer; a medium length of time

So there is a blend of Fixed(tau), and Cardinal(can) or Movable signs here as Lilly says with the exception of Mercury in the 12th.

So my first thoughts were that the querant would be in jail in a little shy of 4 days as there was less than 4 degrees applying or 4 weeks. Yet that Taurus Moon said a long wait, and then Mercury, despite being in Cancer was in a medium amount of time house, the 12th, regardless of the other indicators of this happening fast as the asc. is cancer and the lord of the 12th is cancer.

So my querant, who left his home state of residence was on the run or left the state, and at this time he is Not in jail. But my opinion is that if he is Not incarcerated by the July 14th, one month from the incident, that he is most likely free and there will not be a warrant issued, and the horary as I understand will not have the querant arrested about four months from now as there just is not that much fixity in this horary.

Most of you realize that everything put on the Internet, especially emails, can be used in many states within the USA as evidence in court or by police departments, so I have been holding back on my report to you until the 14th or there abouts. And I will be accurate yet discrete about what happened in this horary that is very exciting and will have all of you at the edge of your seats that I'll share; well it did me when the querant told me of this incident!

What happened?

At this time in the USA due to outsourcing dissolving our economy the state of homeless people is at high proportions in most states. The querant is a homeless man due to an automobile accident that totaled his vehicle and left him crippled for life and has been homeless for about 20 years. He was coming back to his camp that is along a main transportation artery in an industrial district that is less than a mile from a half-way house. For those of you who may not understand what a half-way house is in the USA, from what the querant has shared if accurate it houses through a work program those whom are heading to prison or just out of prison. And this particular one has around 65% rate of returning people on probation back to prison, and the querant says some sources say 85% return. Upon the querant finding a drunk who said he was in the program in his camp or bedroll the querant told him to leave. As told to me the drunken individual refused and was very assertive and they argued over territorial rights to the querant's camp. It got hostile to the point the intruder in another's camp threatened to cut the throat with his knife, and end the querant's life. Where the querant assured him if he attempted that, that he would mutilate the intruder's arm if not end his life. The intruder did draw blood in the slight combat, yet the querant was able to drive the intruder from his camp and the intruder who threatened the querant must have hid the knife as he called the police from his cell phone. According to the querant when he saw the lights of the phone and latter law enforcement vehicles with spotlights searching for the querant, he hid yet placed himself at a point to observe the police that were at his camp and shinning spotlights from their vehicles. The intruder most likely had showed his I.D. to the authority's and had a police or criminal record and since there were no witnesses and the intruder who called had a record there was possibly doubt upon the incident happening by the authoritys. I've known others like the querant whom are in poverty and from what I understand despite the querant's police record he is possibly tolerated as the querant has stopped several robberies in the industrial neighborhood.

Note the Cancer Asc., emphasis upon the domestic circumstances and the Moon in tau in the 10th as like one unofficially in charge in the community. Also note Mercury is lord of jail and the Sun cjt the 12H cusp shows the state of poverty circumstances and the self undoing of the individual. Mercury is also the transportation route which several homeless people use as a camping area.

Some may ask why I helped this poor man, but I've known him and others like him in various communities and even if he has little to pay for a horary, he is sincere and he does fine yard work and can work on automobiles occasionally and shovel snow. As far as the ethics of helping him and Not reporting him to the authorities it is like the following. In WWII astrologers had to choose in Nazi Germany if they would defect and go to Churchill where Sidney Omarr was serving in England. Or prior to Lincoln freeing the slaves in the USA anyone helping the underground railroad for slaves to escape to the North were commiting treason as slavery was leagal in the original U.S. Constitution, and you were by law considered criminal to interfere with slave owner's property. In other words if the querant had killed this man depending upon the intruder's past record this horary artist would have to make a judgment call just as many individuals do in the case of the illegal marijuana issue in California and the USA or if one would talk to authorities about the death of a convicted pedifile or a rapist.

Clinton Garrett Soule

Wise Men Truly Know How Little They Know
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