skyscript.co.uk
   

home articles forum events
glossary horary quiz consultations links more

Read this before using the forum
Register
FAQ
Search
View memberlist
View/edit your user profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
Recent additions:
Lilly's Considerations
compiled by D. Houlding
Book II of Carmen Astrologicum by Dorotheus
translated by David Pingree
Compiled by Deborah Houlding
The Babylonian Astrolabe: the Calendar of Creation, by Rumen K. Kolev
Reviewed by Gill Zukovskis

Skyscript Astrology Forum

Froch vs Bute

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Sport and Speculation
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 4:17 am    Post subject: Froch vs Bute Reply with quote

Hello, everyone!

I haven't been here for a while, but I came back - though I don't know how long - and I have exercised my talent with a boxing match, the one between Lucian Bute and Carl Froch. I got the result right, but I won't disclose it before some folks make their guess about the winner. So I'll post the chart for the sake of the exercise.



Who won and why? Smile To those who already know the score, please don't disclose the winner. Thank you.

Good luck and don't cheat!
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Sun May 27, 2012 9:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I suggest you just get to the point and share your learning. If you are fortunate this will encourage other people to engage in a discussion of your techniques...

This is a forum, not a Faculty examination - but you are welcome to offer your views on an upcoming event. Thumbs up
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Okay, than why there are Mystery Charts over the Skyscript forum? Also, I noticed some of the forum's members forecasted the outcomes of various contests without knowing the final score (before the matches' happenings, though). Like monthly football predictions and Eurovision...
Arrow So why is this topic different by those above mentioned?

Anyway, I will do as you wish (although I don't believe it is fair).

I always put the host team on the Asc and the guest team on the Desc. This means Froch (as host) is Asc and Bute is Desc.

Capricorn is rising, so Saturn and Mars share the same power (the Asc is in the exaltation and face of Mars), but because the chart is nocturnal and Mars is closely aspecting the Asc, I assigned Mars as the principal Lord of Asc.
Cancer is setting, so the Moon and Jupiter are the candidates, but only one of them should signify Bute. As you can see, the Moon is in Leo, so she can't see Cancer, therefore she is not the significatrix of Bute. Thus Jupiter is the main Lord of Desc.

The Moon shows the public, and her being in 7th is a clear indication of Bute being a favorite.

Mars is in Hayz and in participant triplicity, so he already has an advantage. Jupiter is in extra-conditionem and peregrine, so he doesn't have the skills to match Mars'. Another point is his conjunction with Algol, which shows loss of prestige and destruction of status. Bute was highly regarded as a champion, this being shown by his conjunction with IC, his derived MC (10th from 7th).

These significators alone aren't enough. I am looking for MC as the victory for Asc and IC as Descendant's victory.
With MC in Scorpio, you can already see that Asc is going to be a clear winner. For IC, you can take Venus as the last resort, because the Moon is already significatrix of the public. Comparing Mars to Venus, it is obvious (yes, it was obvious even before the match happened) that Mars is the winner, because Venus is peregrine and retrograde. Also, her position in Bute's 12th House may be translated as "loss of victory".

By all these testimonies, the Asc wins. Therefore, Froch wins. And so it proved.
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -


Last edited by Tzadde on Thu May 31, 2012 6:29 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Tue May 29, 2012 4:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Okay, than why there are Mystery Charts over the Skyscript forum? Also, I noticed some of the forum's members forecasted the outcomes of various contests without knowing the final score (before the matches' happenings, though). Like monthly football predictions and Eurovision...
So why is this topic different by those above mentioned?

Anyway, I will do as you wish (although I don't believe it is fair).

I believe I agree with you and I like to participate and I leave a great number of articles for others that I hope they will either enjoy, learn from or participate in the discussion.

As a professional astrologer with services sometimes open from 8 a.m. until 23 p.m in the evening, I was probably stressed by the mixture of business and pleasure. I think people are scared of making mistakes or making a fool of themselves - and the art of judging contests is certainly difficult enough for many of us.

I am grateful for you sharing you understanding on this chart and I do hope you put money on it and won the bet! Thumbs up
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Wed May 30, 2012 5:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I hope you don't mind me asking questions now that I have had time to study your work in better detail.
Quote:
I always put the host team on the Asc and the guest team on the Desc. This means Froch (as guest) is Asc and Bute is Desc.

Why did you give the guest the ascendant? I am glad you provided the answer because I am not sure I could have seen the difference. Your introduction quotes Bute against Froch, while the chart says Froch vs. Bute. Neither do I know enough about boxing to know who was the favourite or title holder - so I would have been certain to get this one wrong. Sad
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That was a typo! Froch is the host. Smile Sorry!

I have corrected it. Thanks for noticing!
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Andrew Bevan



Joined: 20 Dec 2005
Posts: 4594
Location: Oslo, Norway

Posted: Thu May 31, 2012 7:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like the way you refer to Mars in hayiz. Mars rules the ascendant by exaltation, which could be particularly relevant in 'brute' contests like this. I am assuming it is a technical victory and Froch wins by points with Mars in Virgo. Mars aspects the ascendant by trine. Thumbs up
_________________
http://www.astronor.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tzadde



Joined: 07 Apr 2011
Posts: 137

Posted: Fri Jun 01, 2012 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure whether it was a technical victory, because Froch was very fast and precise with his hits. Bute actually couldn't move at all for the first four rounds, then in the fifth Froch won with a KO, being very aggressive and very fast against his opponent. Many people said - after the end of the match - that was the old school boxing winning over the modern boxing.

Virgo is the house of Mercury, and with Mars there we can think of speed and precision, because there is a combination of Mars and Mercury, as Mars is aspecting his dispositor in his other house. Also, Virgo is very fond of old school fashion in any field... As for Bute's inability to move, I think this fits with Jupiter in the fixed Sign. Ah, and Algol is about "losing one's head"; Bute received most of the hits in his head or around there...
_________________
Amor ordinem nescit.
Love does not know order.
- Saint Jerome -
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Sport and Speculation All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
. Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group

       
Contact Deborah Houlding  | terms and conditions  
All rights on all text and images reserved. Reproduction by any means is not permitted without the express
agreement of Deborah Houlding or in the case of articles by guest astrologers, the copyright owner indictated